Hilton Yam's path away from the 1911

[TiroFijo]

The mythical 1911A1 millspec guns...

Run well with 7 shot magazines and ball ammo. Shot OK with their little sights. If you are lucky, the hammer doesn't bite you.

Their parts were not drop-in. Compatibility required looking in a pile of parts to see which fit best, and then perhaps adjust/hand fit it some more.

The slide was only spot hardened and did not last as much as today full hard slides.

The triggers were not what we want today (relatively light and crisp), because the hammer hooks were 0.28"+ or so.

Same with accuracy, not what most of us want today.

They were very durable, but you have to remember that maaany parts (including probably slide and barrel) were replaced in those fabled 100K+ round count pistols.

And ergonomic details were of course inferior.

IMO today the niche of the 1911 is with people that value its great trigger for very accurate first shots, and fast, accurate follow ups. If you want an accurate, high quality, long lasting, good trigger 1911 today you have to pay for it, know its peculiarities, forget about drop-in parts, and have a good armorer/gunsmith and a spare if you are a high round count user.

FWIW, I have a couple of 1911s, and like them. But you have to see the entire picture.

[bjxds]

1911 or Polymer?? 45 or 9mm??

Like it or not Glock introduced a good product at a very good price point with superior MARKETING. I gotta admit they do work. Now they are everywhere, and everyone is modifying the design. Colt made some of the best revolvers ever produced, "The Colt Python", and now they do not make revolvers at all. I would be willing to bet the majority of 1911 Fans are 50 years old, I am. The perceived unreliability and price keep many away. ITS about Money, when sales drop to a certain level, the product will no longer be sold.

My grandkids will look at the 1911 like I looked at the M1 Garand. And by the way I still use Old fashioned mouse traps.

[TiroFijo]

1911 or Polymer?? 45 or 9mm??

Like it or not Glock introduced a good product at a very good price point with superior MARKETING. I gotta admit they do work. Now they are everywhere, and everyone is modifying the design. Colt made some of the best revolvers ever produced, "The Colt Python", and now they do not make revolvers at all. I would be willing to bet the majority of 1911 Fans are 50 years old, I am. The perceived unreliability and price keep many away. ITS about Money, when sales drop to a certain level, the product will no longer be sold.

My grandkids will look at the 1911 like I looked at the M1 Garand. And by the way I still use Old fashioned mouse traps.

When select units around the world, the ones that practice most and have the largest budgets, choose some of these cheap plastic guns or something similar, you have to admit their marketing is truly exceptional

For shooting (not collecting) I'm a S&W revolver fan over anything colt ever made, at any price.

I'm 51 and I like 1911s (and many other designs), but for many young people around here the 1911 is alive and well.

[19852]

When select units around the world, the ones that practice most and have the largest budgets, choose some of these cheap plastic guns or something similar, you have to admit their marketing is truly exceptional

For shooting (not collecting) I'm a S&W revolver fan over anything colt ever made, at any price.

I'm 51 and I like 1911s (and many other designs), but for many young people around here the 1911 is alive and well.

I shoot regularly in a week day evening IDPA match series around here. My observations:

1) Glocks are used by many. Most of them in the middle age and up range but not all. Some of the best and younger shooters are moving away from Glocks to CZ Shadows. The youngest shooters are using 1911's.
2) I am the only regular revolver guy. I like Colts but shoot S&W's for holster, speedloader and grip selection reasons.

[rushca01]

1911 or Polymer?? 45 or 9mm??

Like it or not Glock introduced a good product at a very good price point with superior MARKETING. I gotta admit they do work. Now they are everywhere, and everyone is modifying the design. Colt made some of the best revolvers ever produced, "The Colt Python", and now they do not make revolvers at all. I would be willing to bet the majority of 1911 Fans are 50 years old, I am. The perceived unreliability and price keep many away. ITS about Money, when sales drop to a certain level, the product will no longer be sold.

My grandkids will look at the 1911 like I looked at the M1 Garand. And by the way I still use Old fashioned mouse traps.

I would bet you would be surprised by the number of young people that are dedicated to the 1911...I'm 31 and I have 5 1911's one is a Springfield built by SACS that is one of my primary carry guns. I have a Colt series 70 repro at MARS Armament as we speak getting built into an Axiom package that will be carried. Hell I even started a thread a few years back asking if anyone under 30 carried 1911's or if everyone in that age group was type cast as "glocks" and "flip-flops" type people. Don't get me wrong I own Glocks and M&P's as well, and occasionally carry a Glock 19. The even more odd thing that you will find about me is I started my serious shooting/training on a Glock 19 and moved towards owning and shooting 1911's. I had shot 1911's as a kid but didn't know anything about striker fired pistols trigger pull vs single action then. I didn't move to the 1911 for the trigger or because they are easier to shoot well, I did it because they are cool. I grew up watching all the 80's and 90's TV stars shooting the 1911, that's probably what started it for me. So in that regards I'm not some old holdover on the platform that's trying to hang on to the trigger pull or shootability. I shoot both Grocks and 1911's equally bad

[JeremyW]

I think everyone should own at least one well made 1911. They are a beautiful looking gun. However, you really need to have a working knowledge of the platform and how to tune it/keep it tuned. Not a gun for the novice in my opinion.

[Bigun]

At one time I owned 5 1911's I now own one. It is superbly reliable and accurate. But I also take care of my guns. Which means if I shoot them I clean them. All of my other pistols are CZ's, Also extremely reliable and accurate guns. Keep your combat tupperware they leave me cold.

Sent from my SCH-R930 using Tapatalk 2

[jedi391]

I'm in my 30's and started shooting the 1911 for duty use in my 20's. My agency allows 1911 carry for duty. They're very popular with guys who take shooting skills seriously. These guys usually start with them as soon as they can, mostly in their 20's. Then there are the, relative to our agency, old timers that have been shooting them since their Marine Corps days. Age doesn't seem to have much to do with it.

[beschatten]

Hilton makes solid points on the pangs involved with selecting a 1911 for a service pistol. It's timely and costly for departments and agencies to keep these things up and running at all times when you don't have a team of solid armorers/gunsmiths maintaining them as they take the abuse some of us civvies do not experience. However, I think Hilton's POV is subjective.

He mentions that the 1911 is not the best option for a service pistol. No disagreement there. Buying bulk off-the-shelf models from whatever brand--I would not be surprised at the failure rates that were witnessed as the guns were put through there paces during training. I believe that since this is mostly where Hilton's interests and career lies in (LEO/Agency), it is not the optimal choice.

But many of us are fortunate enough to get the attention of some of the finest gunsmiths and shops in the world to build and modify our 1911s. If one goes down, we have another ready to go while it is getting serviced. Dropping thousands of dollars per pistol would be non-issue, but this is an issue for budget-run agencies with a lack of support and money. You can see him pretty much aligning with this train of thought by saying "However, if training, shooting, and performance is your primary goal and you lack the resources, time, patience, or knowledge to keep after a 1911, then be realistic and choose something more modern".

I don't think Hilton said any of this to strike a blow to 1911 users. But given his circumstances, tendinitis and wrist problems, a consultant to LEO agencies, having a career in LEO, you can see why he moved away from it (by taking a holistic view of the situation). I don't think he is trying to advise against 1911s, but saying "Hey, be prepared to drop dollars, time, and patience if you do. If you don't want any of that, here's a shortcut--pick a modern design". Which is nothing new. At the same time, you've got trainers like Todd Green that switched to the 1911 (in 9mm no less).

All in all, like all subjective debates, do what you want. Just 'Hilton moved away from the 1911 doesn't mean you should do. Or just 'cause Todd Green picked up a Warren 9mm, you've got too. Or cause the FBI chose the Professional, you've got too. Or 'cause XYZ agency chose this plastic wonder 9, you've got to.

[rushca01]

Hilton makes solid points on the pangs involved with selecting a 1911 for a service pistol. It's timely and costly for departments and agencies to keep these things up and running at all times when you don't have a team of solid armorers/gunsmiths maintaining them as they take the abuse some of us civvies do not experience. However, I think Hilton's POV is subjective.

He mentions that the 1911 is not the best option for a service pistol. No disagreement there. Buying bulk off-the-shelf models from whatever brand--I would not be surprised at the failure rates that were witnessed as the guns were put through there paces during training. I believe that since this is mostly where Hilton's interests and career lies in (LEO/Agency), it is not the optimal choice.

But many of us are fortunate enough to get the attention of some of the finest gunsmiths and shops in the world to build and modify our 1911s. If one goes down, we have another ready to go while it is getting serviced. Dropping thousands of dollars per pistol would be non-issue, but this is an issue for budget-run agencies with a lack of support and money. You can see him pretty much aligning with this train of thought by saying "However, if training, shooting, and performance is your primary goal and you lack the resources, time, patience, or knowledge to keep after a 1911, then be realistic and choose something more modern".

I don't think Hilton said any of this to strike a blow to 1911 users. But given his circumstances, tendinitis and wrist problems, a consultant to LEO agencies, having a career in LEO, you can see why he moved away from it (by taking a holistic view of the situation). I don't think he is trying to advise against 1911s, but saying "Hey, be prepared to drop dollars, time, and patience if you do. If you don't want any of that, here's a shortcut--pick a modern design". Which is nothing new. At the same time, you've got trainers like Todd Green that switched to the 1911 (in 9mm no less).

All in all, like all subjective debates, do what you want. Just 'Hilton moved away from the 1911 doesn't mean you should do. Or just 'cause Todd Green picked up a Warren 9mm, you've got too. Or cause the FBI chose the Professional, you've got too. Or 'cause XYZ agency chose this plastic wonder 9, you've got to.

Golf clap ....well put.