H&K MP7 pictures...

[Mr blasty]

The information I have recieved is from a direct end user, that poked holes in people with the item. It is beyond a valid source of information. The comment was made that MP7s nor Mk-17s were utilized by any one unit, that is false.
Nowhere have I disputed the fact that 4.6 has less than desireable performance, in fact, I did just the opposite. HOWEVER, turning an amazingly controlable bullet hose of 4.6 on someone's torso at close range will kill them, that is the only thing I have stated.

Not sure if you're aware of who or what Dano is but as a heads up he's one of the ones who would be running such a combo if anyone was. If he says they aren't then they probably aren't.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2

[TXinfidel]

Not sure if you're aware of who or what Dano is but as a heads up he's one of the ones who would be running such a combo if anyone was. If he says they aren't then they probably aren't.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2

I am not aware of anything about him, nor have I disrespected him in any way. That said, my statement stands, that at one point US SEALS/ NSW have employed the MK-17 heavily and at some point the MP7. Just so I am clear, is this what is being refuted?

[RyanB]

Ok that ammo has my attention. That's shit hot performance.

[sua175]

I know of some units outside of green and blue that have mp7's not sure how much they use them but I have seen them in the wild.

MP7 is definitely a niche weapon but it has it's place. Only have shot one once at a range but I would prefer one over a MP5sd.

For low vis PSD missions I couldn't imagine a better long arm than mp7. I wouldn't mind owning a MP7 if they were obtainable. I like the ideal of having a weapon like krinkov or mp7 in my arsenal to have all my bases covered.

[Arctic1]

During a wound packing training block we did for some medics last year, before I got out, we shot tissue with all of our issued ammo types:

9x19mm
5.56x45mm
7.62x51mm
4.6mm

All are "green", ie contain no lead.

While the 4.6 cannot measure up to a 5.56 or 7.62, it did considerably better than a 9mm, and I was surprised at the amount of tissue damage seeing as I had read the less than stellar reports on performance.
Granted, this is highly subjective lacking scientific validity, as well as not having a lot of data on the 4.6 ammo we use (projectile weight, projectile type, projectile construction etc).

ETA:

Just checked the manual, and the ammo we use is a 2 gram/30 grain steel core projectile that looks like this:

[El Cid]

I am not aware of anything about him, nor have I disrespected him in any way. That said, my statement stands, that at one point US SEALS/ NSW have employed the MK-17 heavily and at some point the MP7. Just so I am clear, is this what is being refuted?

The only thing I raised an eyebrow at was your statement that:

I had a friend over seas that used The Mp7 and Scar17 extensively. He said reliabilty was flawless and a short burst to the torso was always effective. He said specifically he could not remember an instance where a follow up burst was required.

My reason for having trouble buying into that is that I know someone who is currently in the NSW unit that issues them and his words were the opposite - that the 4.6 doesn't get it done.

I'm sure it works sometimes - but suggesting it always worked raises a flag. Nothing personal - I'm not doubting your friend was in NSW. I just find it odd that his experience was the opposite of a guy I know is a face-shooter.

Sua, are you saying you saw MP7's outside JSOC, or just outside those 2 elements you mentioned. It wouldn't surprise me to see cross pollenation between black and white SOF, especially down range.

[sua175]

Technically I saw them in a unit that is under JSOC. Before I got out I heard that all of regiment was replacing the mp5sd with mp7's. I was never a big fan of the mp5, not very ergonomic, dated design, lack of penetration of the 9mm. Plus the MP5sd HHC had in their arms room experienced stoppages when I saw them ran. I can't speak to the terminal ballistic effect of the 4.6 but you know what they saw... Shot placement. Logically I can't imagine HK designing a round that doesn't have the capability to incapacitate a human. I wouldn't mind someone like LAV doing a ballistics test with the mp7 compared to a mp5.

I have heard operators say they like it, they don't. It reminds of when the SCAR was being tested some liked it, some didn't.

I wouldn't want to raid a compound with a mp7 but for low vis missions I could see were this weapon could be useful. People need to realalize that a weapon is a tool to be used for a specific job there is no tool that can preform every task. Does any one here have real operational experience with a mp7? In a couple of years I should have access to this weapon and I will be testing it's capabilities thoroughly. The p90 was a joke but I think this might be a good PDW contender along with the krinkov.

But I can believe the info that artic1 posted, I beilive a 4.6 wound ballistics could be superior to 9mm.

[TXinfidel]

[QUOTE=El Cid;1877023]I suspect the point Dano is making is that the MP7 isn't issued to white SOF elements. I suppose there could be some bleed over OCONUS, and I know in the past the tier 1 guys have been augmented on deployments with white SOF guys (sort of an informal tryout)... So I'm not saying what your friend told you isn't true. But it runs counter to the information I received first hand.QUOTE]

This is where I got confused then FYI.

[Swamp Yankee]

I think Darryl Bolke mentioned this on another forum, but...

If H&K was to release a .45ACP factory SBR version that used HK45 magazines, I do not think they would be able to keep up with the demand.

[sua175]

I suspect the point Dano is making is that the MP7 isn't issued to white SOF elements. I suppose there could be some bleed over OCONUS, and I know in the past the tier 1 guys have been augmented on deployments with white SOF guys (sort of an informal tryout)... So I'm not saying what your friend told you isn't true. But it runs counter to the information I received first hand.

Now an MP7 with a can would probably be a great tool for sentry removal. But the examples I was provided were in running gunfights where you typically can't take slow, deliberate CNS shots.

My initial comment was in response to people stateside wanting MP7's. Yes they would be cool toys but anyone with illusions of using them for HD is asking to be disappointed IMO. That's just in relation to terminal ballistics. Nevermind the cost of an HK and the hard to find ammo. The dudes issued MP7's are extreme performers who are going to get better results than us no matter the weapon used. Maybe Dano can correct me if I'm wrong (don't want to give away TTP's), but isn't the 300BLK intended to replace the 4.6?

Green and blue have to get support from outside their unit Becuase green and blue are small units and when they deploy they do not deploy as a whole. Or they need a form of support that cannot be preformed organically. So what usually happens is that for larger missions were a significant number of bodies are needed a ranger platoon or even a group dudes, will be used to pull outer cordon and security while green would assualt the actual OBJ, this is just an example. I know that green and blue have different selection process but there is no such thing as a informal "tryout". Now it just so happens that most of the shooters in Green come from the units who support them down range.

The reason why you see use of this weapon outside T1 units is Becuase of small joint stuff from guys across the SOF spectrum. I saw my first mp7 in the army in 2008. I don't know anyone who is currently on the seal teams but I thought that all or most of the teams had received the mp7. Also a lot of people think that all the seal teams are T1 and this is not true, the only T1 seal unit is what civilians like to call SEAL TEAM SIX or what people in SOF know as BLUE.

I use to have a TL that would jokingly refer to us as deltas bitches.

Like said above T1 units are small and they are required to keep a certain percent of bodies CONUS "on call"