50 yard accuracy

[Moltke]

Here's my take on the issue, and how I would go about it.

Start by benching the gun and zero at 100 yards.
If you're using a 2 MOA dot then zero on a 4 inch black circle. You should be able to see a black ring around your red dot, know that its centered, and adjust the scope until you're shooting the center out of the target.
Measure your benchrest group size at 100 yards, 10rds, on a zeroing target - assuming you did your part as a shooter, you have identified the mechanical accuracy of your gun / optic / ammo.

Next bench the gun and shoot at 50 yards, realize that you have a difference in your point of impact. (Where is your group center..?)
Probably going to be about 1.5 inches low if you're using an Aimpoint so account for this by holding over your desired impact area by 1.5 inches.
Your benched group size at 50 yards should be half as big as your group size at 100 yards.

When training, focus on Accuracy... OR Speed, not both. At least not at first.
You should realize that you're not actually going to shoot the rifle to its limit while standing unsupported.
Find your Natural Point of Aim with the rifle, allowing you to shoot with maximum stability, then adapt that stance to a combat shooting position.

AFTER you've achieved the Accuracy standard that you desire from the benchrest, your Natural Point of Aim & your combat shooting position, THEN work on speed.
When working on speed designate a "HIT" zone on the target and work on hitting that zone, don't worry about where the bullet struck inside it as long as its inside.
Snap the gun up, see your sights/dot, and break a clean shot into your HIT zone.

[ptmccain]

If you are putting rounds into center mass at 50 yards, shooting as quickly as you can, you are doing just fine.

Add moving side to side, on an angle, back and forth.

I'd ignore the suggestions that you should be putting every round into a 3x5 card from the low ready at 50 yards, or into an IDPA target, all head shots. Sounds cool, but reality? Nope, unless you have tens of thousands of rounds to practice with every month and the only guys who have that opportunity are US Special Forces.

What do you call a guy who gets and A or a C in medical school? A doctor.

Sounds to me like you are doing just fine and the more you practice, the more confident and capable you will become.

[wahoo95]

My speed and accuracy greatly improved when I began shooting the local 2 Gun competitions where all of my shooting is done standing/moving on the clock. The other neat thing is that in the comps I can increase the level of difficulty by simply shooting head shots only or choosing to only focus on a 6"x6" area of COM.

[Arctic1]

When training, focus on Accuracy... OR Speed, not both. At least not at first.

I was gonna comment that speed shouldn't be a goal in itself, without accuracy, but you made it good with this:

AFTER you've achieved the Accuracy standard that you desire from the benchrest, your Natural Point of Aim & your combat shooting position, THEN work on speed.

This is true, speed comes with practice. after accuracy is consistent.

[Arctic1]

If you are putting rounds into center mass at 50 yards, shooting as quickly as you can, you are doing just fine.

Add moving side to side, on an angle, back and forth.

I'd ignore the suggestions that you should be putting every round into a 3x5 card from the low ready at 50 yards, or into an IDPA target, all head shots. Sounds cool, but reality? Nope, unless you have tens of thousands of rounds to practice with every month and the only guys who have that opportunity are US Special Forces.

What do you call a guy who gets and A or a C in medical school? A doctor.

Sounds to me like you are doing just fine and the more you practice, the more confident and capable you will become.

Incorrect.

You should always have a small hit zone to aim for, as it teaches you to control the shot to where you can make it consistently based on the level of skill you are at.
It does not matter if you have a shot or two outside of the hit zone during training; this is good feedback on your performance and should indicate areas you need to improve.

A generic COM hit is all well and good in real life, shooting an A and a C in competion is also ok. However, in practice you should always strive to maintain a stringent accuracy requirement.
I have been told that I can shoot a lot faster if I don't focus on grouoing so well. I always tell them that the winner is the one who hits first, not the one who shoots first.

[Moltke]

If you are putting rounds into center mass at 50 yards, shooting as quickly as you can, you are doing just fine.

Add moving side to side, on an angle, back and forth.

I'd ignore the suggestions that you should be putting every round into a 3x5 card from the low ready at 50 yards, or into an IDPA target, all head shots. Sounds cool, but reality? Nope, unless you have tens of thousands of rounds to practice with every month and the only guys who have that opportunity are US Special Forces.

What do you call a guy who gets and A or a C in medical school? A doctor.

Sounds to me like you are doing just fine and the more you practice, the more confident and capable you will become.

You should strive to have high standards, it will only help you.

If you have limited resources then the right way to do it... is to do it right.
Take the guesswork out of your zero and know what your gun is capable of so you can see yourself in your shooting.
Don't worry about shooting on the move, or what SF does, or competition shooting until you're shooting accurately.
The rest will come if you train to a high standard of accuracy.

Also consider that if you can make multiple hits on a 3x5 card at 50 yards standing unsupported, as fast as you can get a followup sight picture...
Putting rounds into a torso at 25 yards and closer is cake, and shooting long range with the stability offered by prone is cake.

I like cake.

[ptmccain]

I'm not saying you should not strive for tight groups.

I am however asserting the fact that getting shots into center mass with good spacing is more effectively than putting rounds through same one inch/two inch space.

Now, granted the 20 year veteran of the SEALS I've been privileged to train with, 8 of those years in DEVGRU, with multiple deployments on a two-way range, from Desert Storm up to and include the current US war on terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places, in a number of very unpleasant places fighting against a variety of unpleasant people, followed by a distinguished career as a Tier 1 training with the DOD may be full of it, but....well, I'm thinking maybe he knows a thing or two about combat accuracy and what it takes to achieve that. I welcome anyone who can put up credentials to prove to me that he is wrong.

I think telling the OP that he need to be hitting a 3x5" inch space 50 yards if more than little unrealistic.

Unless he has unlimited ammo and time to do this, I think advising him to strive for solid center mass hits, spreading the hits out to do the maximum damage to the "target" is the way to go.

As always, YMMV.

[Failure2Stop]

I'm not saying you should not strive for tight groups.

I am however asserting the fact that getting shots into center mass with good spacing is more effectively than putting rounds through same one inch/two inch space.

Now, granted the 20 year veteran of the SEALS I've been privileged to train with, 8 of those years in DEVGRU, with multiple deployments on a two-way range, from Desert Storm up to and include the current US war on terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places, in a number of very unpleasant places fighting against a variety of unpleasant people, followed by a distinguished career as a Tier 1 training with the DOD may be full of it, but....well, I'm thinking maybe he knows a thing or two about combat accuracy and what it takes to achieve that. I welcome anyone who can put up credentials to prove to me that he is wrong.

I think telling the OP that he need to be hitting a 3x5" inch space 50 yards if more than little unrealistic.

Unless he has unlimited ammo and time to do this, I think advising him to strive for solid center mass hits, spreading the hits out to do the maximum damage to the "target" is the way to go.

As always, YMMV.

It's all well and good until you don't have wide-open targets.

And please, don't forget, it isn't the 20-year NSW guy saying this, it's you, filtered through your perception.
If he wants to come here and discuss the matter, he is completely welcome, but I highly doubt that he would bandy his resume about like you just did for him.
Folks with background tend to speak from a grounding of real-world application and how training supported the mission, not what unit he was with.

It is a pretty well known fact that upper level performers train with higher level performers in order to improve their performance, and know that they will experience performance degradation when under high stress and have a pretty high precision requirement in training, which supports slightly less precise (but effective) performance in actual conflict.

[Arctic1]

I am however asserting the fact that getting shots into center mass with good spacing is more effectively than putting rounds through same one inch/two inch space.

What do you base that on? What physiological factors makes two closely placed shots less effective than two spaced apart?

Now, granted the 20 year veteran of the SEALS I've been privileged to train with, 8 of those years in DEVGRU, with multiple deployments on a two-way range, from Desert Storm up to and include the current US war on terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places, in a number of very unpleasant places fighting against a variety of unpleasant people, followed by a distinguished career as a Tier 1 training with the DOD may be full of it, but....well, I'm thinking maybe he knows a thing or two about combat accuracy and what it takes to achieve that. I welcome anyone who can put up credentials to prove to me that he is wrong.

I'm sorry, but name-dropping like this to validate your argument makes it a poor one. You cannot take this guy's experience and make his TTPs/standards etc your own experience, and use it to validate your point.
How does he define center mass?

And this is not a right/wrong discussion, it is about giving good advice to a shooter who wants to know what acceptable accuracy is.

And while making head shots or hitting 3x5 or 5x8 index cards at 50 yards is challenging, isn't that the point? Isn't the whole point to challenge yourself to become a better shooter?
You do not do that if you constantly train with a larger hit zone that you are capable of, ie practicing below your potential.
Besides, no one is talking about placing rounds into these hit zones at the same speed at every distance; 50 yards will neccessarily be slower than at 5 yards. You shoot at the speed neccessary to make the required hits.
The key to being an efficient shooter is to cut down on time not spent shooting.

And I can sum up what "combat accuracy" is; it is taking the shot you are presented with and scoring hits. This usually means either moving, partially concealed or partially covered targets. Not large, upright fully visible targets.

[Arctic1]

And Jack beat me to it.