SBR/Trust/Form 1/Engraving Question

[Hmac]

That is how it is supposed to be.

4H is exactly what it says "Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm)"

You only put Additional Info, not the required info. If you are going to put a logo, or text "To the World's Greatest Dad" or "To my Son, on his 18th Birthday" you put that there.

I don't know about that, but I agree that the requirements for engraving are clearly spelled out in the law. For the sake of the Department of Redundancy Department, I put my full name, city, state in box 4H. I figure I'm less likely to go wrong putting the obvious in there that giving a wayward examiner an empty box to focus on.

[Renegade]

I don't know about that.

Well now you do!

Another thing most folks do not realize, is the city/state to be engraved is not where you live, but where the firearm was made.

I am not sure when/where this idea you put your maker info in 4h originated, but it is recent (2-3 years) but it is causing a lot of people a lot of problems. Always leave 4h blank.

FAQ on how to fill out a form 1:

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1.html

[drtywk]

I am still a bit confused with this process and hope someone can answer this. If I purchase or utilize a lower that is already assembled and want to SBR it, do I still have to engrave my trust name/info or is the manufacturers (BCM) roll mark/engraving sufficient?

[TXBK]

Any lower, either stripped or complete, that you are going to file a Form 1 to SBR has to be engraved. A complete factory SBR, which would be a Form 4, does not require engraving.

[BigWaylon]

I am still a bit confused with this process and hope someone can answer this. If I purchase or utilize a lower that is already assembled and want to SBR it, do I still have to engrave my trust name/info or is the manufacturers (BCM) roll mark/engraving sufficient?

The manufacturer has engraved their info, the serial number, the caliber (usually on the barrel, so it doesn't matter if the lower says multi).

You are the maker of the SBR. A lot if people mistakenly say they're manufacturing an SBR. That takes different licenses, taxes paid, paperwork, etc. A Form 1 is titled: Application to Make and Register a Firearm. You have to add the name of the maker and location it was made.

I'll post that for now...and go find the regulation and edit the post.


ETA:

Note that minimum depth is .003" for all required markings. Minimum height of 1/16" is an additional requirement for SN only.

§ 479.102 How must firearms be identified?
(a) You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:
(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and
(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:
(i) The model, if such designation has been made;
(ii) The caliber or gauge;
(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;
(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and
(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
(b) The depth of all markings required by this section will be measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges. The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of the character impression bottoms (bases).

Items i and ii are most likely already present, along with the SN. You're adding iii (your name) and iv as maker (the location you made the firearm...which is not necessarily where you live), since you're not manufacturing the firearm.


It does make me wonder why they'll accept the "recognized abbreviation for your state, but won't take the "recognized abbreviation" of RLT for those that unfortunately have Revocable Living Trust as part of their trust name.

[Hmac]

Well now you do!

Another thing most folks do not realize, is the city/state to be engraved is not where you live, but where the firearm was made.

I am not sure when/where this idea you put your maker info in 4h originated, but it is recent (2-3 years) but it is causing a lot of people a lot of problems. Always leave 4h blank.

My home workshop is located where I live. So I engrave my city/state since that's where the firearm is being made.

Your assertions represent an interesting opinion. Thanks for sharing it. Since my current method of dealing with 4h seems to be working fine over the last 5 years, I think I'll stick with it.

[BigWaylon]

Another thing most folks do not realize, is the city/state to be engraved is not where you live, but where the firearm was made.

Yep...see Section 2(iv) in my post. For manufacturer, it clearly states where the manufacturer has their place of business. For maker it simply says to engrave where it was made. For most people, making it at home, it's the same location.

However...it doesn't have to be.

[drtywk]

Got it, thanks.

[BigWaylon]

I am not sure when/where this idea you put your maker info in 4h originated, but it is recent (2-3 years) but it is causing a lot of people a lot of problems. Always leave 4h blank.

Also...doesn't matter what you put in 4h on EForms...as it's blank when you look at the form. That seems to me to be a good sign to leave it blank on paper if you so choose.

[scottryan]

I've done my research and found just about everything I need to get my paperwork off to the ATF but wanted clarification on the one area that seemed a bit unclear.

On my Form 1 (Box 3b) I have the following:

Justin Wayne Hebert Revocable Living Trust
#### Creek Trail
Las Cruces, NM 88012

Form 1 (Box 4h) indicates:

J. W. Hebert Trust
Las Cruces, NM

Does the above "jive" with those of you who've gone the trust route? Does ATF have issue with abbreviated engraving for a long trust name such as mine? I'd like to ensure others have had success with this method before getting my receivers scratched up

Appreciate the guidance!
Justin

Your trust name should be:

Hebert Revocable Living Trust

For two reasons:

1. If another family member uses the firearm with the last name of Hebert, it will not cause confusion and confrontation with local law enforcement about who really owns the firearm.

2. It is shorter to engrave for a Form 1 gun.