Did the ATF Open the Door for Manufacture of New Machineguns for trust?

[Koshinn]

^^^Hmmm....didn't I say the same thing a few pages back??

Look at it this way-if you want something bad enough you will find a way to buy it. Yes MG's cost 10X or more than what they are worth due to a limited supply. On the flip side-you show me an investment that will give you a guaranteed return on your investment (I doubled my money in less than 5 years) and you have a solid/tangible object in your hand that you can use if needed. I worked my way up the ladder until I was able to buy my first MG, I sold it to buy another one last year. I have sold off several nice firearms to buy another MG. I don't waste my money on stupid shit like most seem to do and I don't buy junk. Would I like to have more than what I have?? YES Does the cost of them hold me back?? YES but I would rather pay the money for them than have some jackass ruin it for everyone due to he or she not knowing how to handle a MG and ****ing up royal with it (little girl killing instructor come to mind) that gave MG's a black eye because there were several failures in that case.

Main thing is this-the less the gun grabbers know about certain things the better. Don't rock the boat too much or you might tip the damn thing over then you will hear even more cry assing going on from people. Case in point-again the Sig arm brace led to the M855 and SS109 because there was a large influx of AR "pistols" being sold and that meant there was a pile of AP "handgun ammunition" on the market. Stupid gun people are their own worst enemy. How much did that $125 Sig AB really save you in the long run?????

It seems like your personal stake in this is the potential massive loss of your investments if new MGs can be made and sold to civilians.

Who cares what gun grabbers think? They ALREADY think all ARs and AKs are fully auto.

[Got UZI]

Funny that all you read out of my last post was that I might lose money on my MG's. I doubt that I'll lose huge money as I dont see they cranking out Thompson's or M3 Grease Gun's. Id like to have an MP5 but its not in the card at this point in time. Would I like them to be cheaper? Damn straight. Is it going to happen? I highly doubt it.

How much crying will there be if Congress changes the Tax Stamp to $2,000 or more??? Lets see-rock the boat and let Congress realize that there is a tax on the books that has not been raised since 1934??? WTF do you think will happen then????

Let me put it to you this way-IF you wanted a really expensive sports car or a private island in the middle of no where and it was really expensive would you find a way to buy it?

[CleverNickname]

Most people in this country don't even know that owning a machine gun is legal. We're probably better off with them not being made aware of it.

If I had to guess, a majority of people don't know the legal definition of "machine gun" and furthermore, they think any black rifle with a pistol grip is a machine gun.

[Conrad101st]

How much crying will there be if Congress changes the Tax Stamp to $2,000 or more??? Lets see-rock the boat and let Congress realize that there is a tax on the books that has not been raised since 1934??? WTF do you think will happen then????

I would consider it a bargain and immediately form 1 two m16s. Each would cost around $3,000 verses $20,000 now.

Would also look at buying a saw and a 240G. Figure $6,000 base price each plus $2k per stamp. Aren't the civilian saws like $200,000 now. Easy math.

[oberstgreup]

If I had to guess, a majority of people don't know the legal definition of "machine gun" and furthermore, they think any black rifle with a pistol grip is a machine gun.

Probably so. The point is that attracting their attention to the NFA is a bad idea.

Would also look at buying a saw and a 240G. Figure $6,000 base price each plus $2k per stamp. Aren't the civilian saws like $200,000 now. Easy math.

This has been discussed here before. Even an ideal result wouldn't open the floodgates on most of that stuff because only trusts could transfer or possess the post-86 MGs. Colt, FN, etc. aren't organized as trusts and neither are professional gunsmiths, so you'd be pretty much limited to what you can buy in a semiauto version and either convert yourself or have someone else convert it while you stayed in their physical presence during the entire process so as to maintain possession. Your trust might be able to sell it to or buy it from another trust in the same state but if you're converting and selling them for profit you'd need to be an FFL/SOT, and good luck getting your gun trust licensed as a SOT.

But this all ignores the main point: the worst-case scenario here is not losing the suit and everything staying the way it is, or winning the suit and stamps go up in price; the worst-case scenario is either winning or losing the suit but stirring up the pond enough that anti-gun politicians are able to use the negative publicity as an excuse to close the pre-86 "loophole" and ban all private ownership of machine guns, raise the price of the stamp to thousands of dollars, ban trusts from owning NFA items (we've already heard muttering about the "trust loophole"), or otherwise restrict our rights even further.

[Got UZI]

I was unaware that there were 240G's that were transferable.

Hate to tell you but an M-16 would cost roughly $1500 but think about something else on those line. Look at all the gun bubbas who build AR's now then try to sell them as "quality" just imagine those same morons building an M-16.......let that one sink in for a moment. Does the term KA-****ING-BOOM come to mind????

Lets face it, someone thought this would be a great idea and there are those of us who can see the writing on the wall. My question is this-if this all blows up and goes south in a bad way will all of those who are so steadfast for this idea be standing there saying "we screwed up" or will they run and hide?? If it goes the other way I'll admit that I was wrong and say "good job" but I highly doubt that will be the case......

[Spartikis]

I was unaware that there were 240G's that were transferable.

Hate to tell you but an M-16 would cost roughly $1500 but think about something else on those line. Look at all the gun bubbas who build AR's now then try to sell them as "quality" just imagine those same morons building an M-16.......let that one sink in for a moment. Does the term KA-****ING-BOOM come to mind????

Lets face it, someone thought this would be a great idea and there are those of us who can see the writing on the wall. My question is this-if this all blows up and goes south in a bad way will all of those who are so steadfast for this idea be standing there saying "we screwed up" or will they run and hide?? If it goes the other way I'll admit that I was wrong and say "good job" but I highly doubt that will be the case......

M240B (FN MAG 58) was originally produced in 1958, so it could have been imported prior to 1968 making them fully transferable. With that being said they are very rare and run $150-175k

I agree that this lawsuit IMO has more potential for bad than good. If all goes well sure we can all go out, make a trust and have MGs for cheap. But if you think the our Gov, the ATF and the American population will be ok with this you are delusional. If this law suit is successful you will have every major media station reporting on it, a major public out cry and there will be an emergency session of congress to pass a law to ban MGs, likely much, much worse than the Hughes amendment.

Look, the NFA and Hughes amendment is unconstitutional and no one likes paying $10,000 for a MG that should cost $1,000 but not everyone thinks like us. Only 1/3 of American households have a gun in their home, that means the other 2/3 either are indifferent or are extremely opposed to firearms...and thats regular title 1 firearms. Public support for title 2 firearms such as Machine guns) is next to nothing.

Also notice how the NRA is quiet on this issue, they likely dont want to be associated with it in any way. And if a gun law or court case does not have the political or financial backing of the NRA chances are its going no where.

There are 185 countries on this planet, here is the list of countries you can own a MG.
Austria: May Issue (For Collection Purposes Only)
Canada: Yes (Only Pre-1987 - Not Transferable)
Czech Republic: May Issue
Estonia: Yes (For Collection Purposes Only)
Finland: May issue (For Collection Purposes Only)
Iraq: Yes
New Zealand: Yes
Norway: May Issue
Pakistan: Yes
Siungapore: May Issue
Switzerland: Yes
South Africa: May Issue
United States: Yes (Only Pre-1986 - Transferable)

Thats 13 countries...13! And of those most are "May Issue" ie you have to know someone or have a good reason or they are restricted for collection purpose only and may not even be allowed to actually fire them. and the ones with no restrictions are countries i wouldnt want to live in, Pakistan, Iraq, etc...

Honestly i hope the case gets thrown out of court as I only see bad things happening by drawing unwanted attention to MG ownership. Someday the public will be ready and willing to accept full auto weapons as part of our culture, but today is not that day and a few gun lovers forcing it upon the American public will only end badly.

[Got UZI]

^^^thanks for the heads up on the M240B. Learn something new everyday.

[AnthonyCumia]

M240B (FN MAG 58) was originally produced in 1958, so it could have been imported prior to 1968 making them fully transferable. With that being said they are very rare and run $150-175k

I agree that this lawsuit IMO has more potential for bad than good. If all goes well sure we can all go out, make a trust and have MGs for cheap. But if you think the our Gov, the ATF and the American population will be ok with this you are delusional. If this law suit is successful you will have every major media station reporting on it, a major public out cry and there will be an emergency session of congress to pass a law to ban MGs, likely much, much worse than the Hughes amendment.

Look, the NFA and Hughes amendment is unconstitutional and no one likes paying $10,000 for a MG that should cost $1,000 but not everyone thinks like us. Only 1/3 of American households have a gun in their home, that means the other 2/3 either are indifferent or are extremely opposed to firearms...and thats regular title 1 firearms. Public support for title 2 firearms such as Machine guns) is next to nothing.

Also notice how the NRA is quiet on this issue, they likely dont want to be associated with it in any way. And if a gun law or court case does not have the political or financial backing of the NRA chances are its going no where.

There are 185 countries on this planet, here is the list of countries you can own a MG.
Austria: May Issue (For Collection Purposes Only)
Canada: Yes (Only Pre-1987 - Not Transferable)
Czech Republic: May Issue
Estonia: Yes (For Collection Purposes Only)
Finland: May issue (For Collection Purposes Only)
Iraq: Yes
New Zealand: Yes
Norway: May Issue
Pakistan: Yes
Siungapore: May Issue
Switzerland: Yes
South Africa: May Issue
United States: Yes (Only Pre-1986 - Transferable)

Thats 13 countries...13! And of those most are "May Issue" ie you have to know someone or have a good reason or they are restricted for collection purpose only and may not even be allowed to actually fire them. and the ones with no restrictions are countries i wouldnt want to live in, Pakistan, Iraq, etc...

Honestly i hope the case gets thrown out of court as I only see bad things happening by drawing unwanted attention to MG ownership. Someday the public will be ready and willing to accept full auto weapons as part of our culture, but today is not that day and a few gun lovers forcing it upon the American public will only end badly.

Very sad those nations are for the most part freer then us....Iraq has more freedom then we do? What the ****ing ****.

[GrahamKAC]

Very sad those nations are for the most part freer then us....Iraq has more freedom then we do? What the ****ing ****.

Really? Yeah I'm sure it's a very free place to live. Turn on any news station sometime and see if the Middle East looks like a place you want to visit.

Sure democracy doesn't exist, tyrannical radial terrorist groups rule the land, and the women can't expose anything other than their eyes. But hey, machine guns on every corner!