HK new striker fired pistol VP9! Pics inside!

**jpmuscle** · 06-16-14, 05:59

Most insightful montrala. Thanks for sharing thus far

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**Mjolnir** · 06-16-14, 07:47

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

This is incorrect. We are constantly working on Glock's for reliability and accuracy issues. Does this mean they are ALL bad? Absolutely not. I put the number at around 30% that have one or the other of these issues (or both).

The factory glock mag release is to short. The slide stop is less than ideal as well. Sight are not metal and MUST BE changed out.

C4

U nearly quoted me - or I u to a friend who is trying very hard to justify his Gen4 purchase.

Apex Tactical extractor Ass'y
Sights (of your choice)
Vickers Tactical mag release
Vickers Tactical slide catch
Grip Force Adapter

That's $140 plus sights not accounted for - FOR ME.

Extra ammo and range time to instill confidence...

Add an additional P30 magazine since the Gen4 comes with three - $40 so theHK VP9 "is a $700 pistol."

That said, I really like the end results of the GLOCK once so fitted. I still don't like the RSA. At the muzzle end the polymer tip protrudes thru the slide and catches when trying to disassemble it. Over time it starts to deform. I'm sick of the little things this platform has had (and the long threads here and elsewhere). That said I put a Storm Lake into one of the Model 17s to good effect. Thus is my adoration for the flea-bitten pistol.

Anyone in the market for a striker-fired pistol HAS to give the VP9 a very close look. Or three.

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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

**Mjolnir** · 06-16-14, 08:07

Originally Posted by TAZ

Well the more I see the more I like. Hope Montrala is correct on the QC part as that in general is the biggest appeal of HK to me. It's why I was willing to drop $900 on a P30.

A pair of these would sure make for a nice Birthday present.

What Montrala says resonates with my experiences working with the Germans, in general. I'm not in the least bit surprised or worried that the have cut corners.

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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

**Mjolnir** · 06-16-14, 08:15

Originally Posted by Crow Hunter

While I am hoping beyond hope that this VP9 is going to be the new Excalibur of handguns I have a problem with this view.

How is HK, which is a very small company that is in the midst of financial troubles going to design/build and sell a handgun that meets all those $900+ HK characteristics for $600+?

Either the USP/P2000/HK45 isn't really worth what they are selling for or SOME type of corners have got to be cut to keep a reasonable profit margin (particularly for a company in financial trouble).

I am an engineer and I have worked in manufacturing my whole professional life and I have never heard of a company in GREAT financial condition sell an item at a loss without something to back it up (much less on in dire financial straits). There isn't going to be a complimentary MP5/HK416 package sold to US civilians that they can make mucho profit on. If they are intending to take market share away from Glock/M&P, from what I am hearing they don't have the capacity to get high volume sales, so selling the VP9 at a razor thin margin and make it up with sales volume isn't going to cut it either.

I have actually worked for a German company that sold the product manufactured at my location at a loss. But it was a package deal to sell a very high profit common rail and ABS system package.

So something has to give here.

(And no, a striker is not $300+ cheaper to manufacture than a hammer)

They have Wilcox and they have additional potential capacity here.

I think the cost of the previous pistols was influenced by company structure as much as anything else.

You are aware that complexity drives cost and when you look at the two LEMs, one DA/SA and one DA/SA with safety one with the de-cocker and one without the de-cocker DV Testing is gonna be much more involved - especially once you add different trigger return springs.

I wish them all the success in the world (same with S&W) as it's good to have change at the top.

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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

**Crow Hunter** · 06-16-14, 11:02

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

They have Wilcox and they have additional potential capacity here.

I think the cost of the previous pistols was influenced by company structure as much as anything else.

You are aware that complexity drives cost and when you look at the two LEMs, one DA/SA and one DA/SA with safety one with the de-cocker and one without the de-cocker DV Testing is gonna be much more involved - especially once you add different trigger return springs.

I wish them all the success in the world (same with S&W) as it's good to have change at the top.

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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."

A difference in company structure I could buy. If HK USA is no longer having to pay royalties to HK GmbH for the "right" to be called "HK USA" and such. (I used to work for the largest privately owned German auto parts manufacturer and we had to pay for the right to have our magneto on the sign out front before we paid for anything else)

I have worked in engineering both design and manufacturing since 1997. Normally you are talking about something between $50-100/hour for a fully burdened rate (depending on base pay, benefits, building, R&D, etc built in costs).

So to drop $300 out of the price of the gun you would have to take between 3 and 6 man-hours out of the assembly (assuming they are using their fully burdened rate in that calculation and not somehow cutting out just what is required for the VP9 with accounting magic). Since I can pretty much guarantee that it doesn't take 3 hours to assemble the whole gun, I don't think that it is all assembly labor. (Which means maybe there is other labor, like QC being removed)

I can fully detail strip and reassemble a Glock 19 in 5 min and I am slow compared to an assembly worker that does it all the time. So even if the HK P series takes 10 times longer (an hour) to assemble than the Glock 19 or VP9, it is still less than $100 additional cost for just the assembly labor. Most of their small parts, even though there are fewer parts, are similar in size/shape/material so they aren't going to get big cost reductions in overall material costs.

Maybe I am missing something here but in my experience you don't net 30% decreases in product price by just removing a few assembly steps.

Granted, I have never tried to disassemble/reassemble a HK P30 so maybe it does take a highly compensated technical person an hour to get it together vs what it takes to assembly a G19.

Any chance these are "manufactured" in Germany but actually assembled in the US and thereby avoiding export/import duties on weapons vs weapon parts, finally assembly QC/testing in Germany, etc? (That might add up to quite a bit)

**Biggy** · 06-16-14, 11:27

I would not be surprised to see the HK VP pistol being offered in different calibers (45acp,40 S&W), sizes ( VP-L and compact sized versions), colors (FDE frame) and with a threaded barrel option in the next few years. I am in for two of these pistols and the only thing I plan on changing out are the sights.