GSW/blow-out kit components - best bang for the buck

[Arctic1]

Double tap

[Chatterbox]

If OCONUS, I'm surprised you wouldn't have a bit more support from your employer. And if OCONUS, you should have a vested interest in ponying up the $ for a proper kit, even if it's out of your own salary. You're talking less than $100 to do it right. Are you talking $300 for 20 people, or $300 each?

http://www.austereprovisions.com/Pro...tCode=IC3K%2D1

This plus a proper TQ that isn't effected by elements like a TK4 is the cheapest I'd probably consider without building it yourself from individual components. Are you needing a case also, or just contents? Kits I currently carry on that type of gear is the Blue Force Gear Trauma Kit Now on the PC and the HSGI Bleeder Pouch on the belt.

If you're a gunfighter in a high threat OCONUS, you should probably already have the background as to what, where, and how to obtain the necessary items.

Thank you. I do want to clarify is that the closest I've been to being a gunfighter was when I walked past Travis Haley.

[Grizzly16]

Thank you. I do want to clarify is that the closest I've been to being a gunfighter was when I walked past Travis Haley.

Not to pry but I'm trying to think of reasons for High risk OCONUS situations.
1. Gunfighter - spring for the kit yourself or from an employer
2. Oil/Gas/mining/construction - employer should spring for or be paying enough for good medical care
3. Standard of living/Medical/Theological mission work - get some donations. If you are doing good work in bad places lots of people would help take care of something like med kits.

Outside of food/shelter/water there isn't a much quicker way to die than poor medical care. Are you going to be with in an hour of a decent care center/hospital? If not have you planned for geart to take care of stuff for the X hours it will take after stabilization until you can get to long term care? I'm thinking pain meds, anti-biotics etc. Something like this might be a good read: http://www.amazon.com/Wilderness-Med.../dp/0762780703

[Hmac]

You should first define the knowledge and interventions the guys should be avle to do, and then design the IFAK around those factors.

It appears that's exactly what he's trying to do here....asking about basic first aid supplies for untrained personnel on a tight budget. Kerlix is great stuff. Light, cheap, great as gauze, can be used for splinting, even as a tourniquet. It will cover about 95% of what an untrained civilian needs out in the field in non-mil, non-leo use.


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[3 AE]

For my EDC that I have in my cargo pockets;

1) Flat "Thin-Cinch" $5.60
2) Z-Pak Dressing $2.00
3) TK-4 $6.25
4) 6 ft Duct Tape $0.25
5) 2pr Nitrile Gloves $0.80
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Total $14.90

Pretty basic, and you can add a better TQ and/or Quik-Clot later as budget and instruction/class permits.

[Heisenberg]

Is there any chance of cutting down the number of kits? Can you designate fewer people as acting medics rather than every person? If moving in teams of 4-5, you could conceivably cut your number of kits required by at least half, increasing the capability of each kit significantly. If everyone knows who has the beefed-up kits, then not necessarily everyone needs to have one on their person.

How large is the overall group that these 20 kits will be potentially treating?

[fyrediver]

Gauze pads: 4x4, 8x10, 10x30. Roller gauze/Kling. Ace wrap 6". Triangular bandage. Medical tape 1" (optional). Nitrile gloves. EMT shears. Get as much as you can afford and divvy it equally up between the kits. Later expand as money becomes available.

You can improvise an "Israeli dressing" with the Ace wrap & gauze pads. Tourniquet is made from the Triangular bandage. Roller gauze to Z fold into a wound to provide pressure from within the wound. Roller gauze or pads can be used to "fill" the void of a large wound to allow the Ace wrap to put pressure on the deeper tissue. Large pad covers large wound.

Take a good First Aid class. Learn to bandage & dress wounds on different body parts so you're not fumbling when/if the time comes. Learn to quickly create a tourniquet and pressure dressing from what you have.

[peruna]

In my experience, it's far more likely that someone will go out and spend $100 or more on an extensive IFAK so that they can pretend that they are ready for the S to HTF. That's IF you believe that the S will ever HTF. I think that every time I see a TQ and/or IFAK attached to the MOLLE vest/belt of the dentist or construction supervisor shooting next to me at any given carbine course. For the vast majority of people, especially untrained people, and the situations that they will face, an "IFAK" with anything more than about $25 worth of Johnson & Johnson doodads is a waste of time and provides only a false sense of medical competence.

Here's a thought. Maybe the dentist or construction worker that you are criticizing just wanted to make sure that a TQ and/or IFAK was available to someone with advanced medical training in the event something did happen to them.

I recall from another thread that you bring a pocket full of band aids to training classes despite being a trauma surgeon. Maybe the dentist or construction worker wanted to be prepared, since it sounds like some trauma surgeons are not.

There are many things about the current "advanced EMS for dummies" concepts that worry me. I find the beliefs that A) penetrating trauma is common and B) that anyone can do it, to be....uh..."interesting". Last carbine course I took, the guy shooting next to me, a dentist, had a very impressive IFAK on his chest rig. Man, I think I could have taken out someone's gallbladder with that kit. He didn't have a clue how to use the stuff. On the other side of that coin, I'm a trauma surgeon. I had a couple of band aids in my pocket.

[Hmac]

Here's a thought. Maybe the dentist or construction worker that you are criticizing just wanted to make sure that a TQ and/or IFAK was available to someone with advanced medical training in the event something did happen to them.

I recall from another thread that you bring a pocket full of band aids to training classes despite being a trauma surgeon. Maybe the dentist or construction worker wanted to be prepared, since it sounds like some trauma surgeons are not.

Nah. Pretty sure these guys were just looking for something to add to make their second-line gear look cool. Both had blood-type patches velcro'ed on, for example . What kind of stuff do you attach to your gear? And what kind of training and refreshers do you go through to use it? Or do you just bring it along for the trauma surgeons that happen to be in your training class?

Relative to the band aids in my pocket, they supplement the very complete first-aid kit that the course organizer brings with him, and sits right next to the cell phone and sign showing latitude/longitude of the range where we're shooting. No need for me to hang any of that unnecessary crap on my vest. I'm not worried about looking cool.

[peruna]

Nah. Pretty sure these guys were just looking for something to add to make their second-line gear look cool. Both had blood-type patches velcro'ed on, for example . What kind of stuff do you attach to your gear? And what kind of training and refreshers do you go through to use it? Or do you just bring it along for the trauma surgeons that happen to be in your training class?

Relative to the band aids in my pocket, they supplement the very complete first-aid kit that the course organizer brings with him, and sits right next to the cell phone and sign showing latitude/longitude of the range where we're shooting. No need for me to hang any of that unnecessary crap on my vest. I'm not worried about looking cool.

Actually, a blood-type patch could come in handy if the patient is unable to speak and a transfusion becomes necessary. Believe it or not, there always seems to be at least one M.D. in every training class I've taken. Imagine that.....

Relying on someone else to bring along a very complete first aid kit is probably not the best plan, but to each his own.

For me, I'm an attorney that sues unprepared trauma surgeons. I have very little practical medical training other than the Wilderness First Aid course I went through due to the fact I do quite a bit of backpacking and hiking.