Glad to see this Hk is quality. Trigger too? That's a hard one to believe so I might need to get one and try it out. Too bad Army Chief wasn't here to comment.
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Senior Member
Glad to see this Hk is quality. Trigger too? That's a hard one to believe so I might need to get one and try it out. Too bad Army Chief wasn't here to comment.
Originally Posted by Iraqgunz
This is 2012. The world is going to end this December and people are still trying to debate the merits of piece of shit, cost cutting crap AR's. Really?
Senior Member
I really need to get my hands on one soon. My G19 may end up as a glove box gun. May have to get 2, one for concealment and the other for duty use.
Reads a lot, posts little.
Moderator
Javelin,
The trigger is great. Basically like the PPq, but a bit heavier and smoother. Almost no over travel. A real shooters' trigger. But let me be clear, if you like your G19, nothing is going to blow you away about the VP9. It is basically a Gen 5 Glock (that works) 10 years early. An evolutionary, not revolutionary upgrade. For me it is a no-brainer because I have a major hang-up about erratic ejection and accuracy. But if I was the chief of a police department I wouldn't dump all my G17s unless we were at the end of life for them or they were giving me trouble.
Let those who are fond of blaming and finding fault, while they sit safely at home, ask, ‘Why did you not do thus and so?’I wish they were on this voyage; I well believe that another voyage of a different kind awaits them.”
Christopher Columbus
Moderator
Performance notes from today. 200 rounds down range. All Blazer Brass 115
Did "El Pres" drills as taught to me by Ken H three targets at 7 yards. 2x2x2 then start over with the first target 2x2x2. I mix up 15 rounds in two mags and insert them randomly to engineer a random mag change in the drill.
9.45 (COLD) 1.45 draw. (clean)
8.23 1.52 draw (Clean)
7.66 1.48 draw (2 dropped shots)
8.84 1.68 draw (Clean)
I was not able to pull off any fast (for me) draws today. Honestly, I was a little fatigued from about 5 hours of sleep. Plus it was hot. Plus I was distracted thinking up excuses. It was interesting to see that I was able to drop 2 seconds in speed primarily by shaving off times between transitions.
Let those who are fond of blaming and finding fault, while they sit safely at home, ask, ‘Why did you not do thus and so?’I wish they were on this voyage; I well believe that another voyage of a different kind awaits them.”
Christopher Columbus
Senior Member
These threads are not making it any easier staying away from buying one. HK's are my favorite handguns. Love my P30's like no other. I handled one in the store yesterday and pried the gun out of my hand safely only to be taunted by Greg, who has all the nice toys.
Nice thread.
Maybe one day.
"Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"
Senior Member
Great info Greg. I need to get one of these soon!
Moderator
Another Update.
I did some more practice with the VP9 in anticipation of the Earnest Langdon class I have coming up next week. Over the long weekend I have taken in out three times. Although it was not done out of any purpose other than laziness, I never bother to clean it (although I will before the class). Anyway, here was the Ammo tally...
100 rounds 124 Grain Nato Winchester
200 Rounds 147 grain RN
50 rounds UMC 115 HP
50 rounds Blazer brass
250 rounds Monarch Brass 115
So, 650 down the pipe this weekend. I tried to use a wild variety of bullets to see if the gun had any quirks. I even tried using different types of bullets in one mag to see if I could break the Vp9s stride during Bill drills, etc.
image by stoiclawyer, on Flickr
image by stoiclawyer, on Flickr
Lots of fun drills including.
1. Bill drills,
2. El Press
3. Shooting on the move
4. Turn and shoot two rounds on the beep.
5. Barricade practice/shooting from a knee.
6. Shooting from prone.
7. Transition drills with light attached.
8. Weak hand drills with light attached.
I have now fired about 200 rounds through the VP9 with light attached. It doesn't seem to care.
image by stoiclawyer, on Flickr
Fantastic gun so far. Let's see if anything pops up during next week's class.
Let those who are fond of blaming and finding fault, while they sit safely at home, ask, ‘Why did you not do thus and so?’I wish they were on this voyage; I well believe that another voyage of a different kind awaits them.”
Christopher Columbus
Member
Looking forward to the AAR
Moderator
Just finished up a two day advanced pistol class taught by Ernest Langdon
Here is his bio from his website.
So, the dude is a badass. This guy is a freaky good shot, and fast. Basically, he can blast poker-chip sized groups at 20 yards faster than I can shoot a clean bill drill at 7 (and that is barely an exaggeration).Ernest Langdon has 12 years active duty as a U.S. Marine and 17 years in the firearms industry. His duties in the Marine Corps include participation in military operations all over the world to include Panama, Cuba, Philippines, and the Persian Gulf. He served as the Chief Instructor of the Second Marine Division Scout Sniper School and the High Risk Personnel Course as well as the Platoon Sergeant of a Close Quarters Battle (CQB) and Designated Marksman (DM) teams and a Scout Sniper Platoon.
Ernest is a graduate of 20 formal shooting schools and 4 anti-terrorism schools with instructor certifications from the FBI, NRA, US Army and US Marine Corps. He is also a graduate of US Army Ranger School, Navy SCUBA School, US Army Airborne School, US Army HALO School and both USMC Scout Sniper School and Scout Sniper Instructor School.
After leaving the Marine Corps and entering the private sector, he has been shooting competitively for over 15 years and has acquired a Grand Master Class rating from the United States Practical Shooting Association. He is one of the few Distinguished Masters in the International Defensive Pistol Association with 10 National Championship Shooting titles and 2 World Speed Shooting titles.
Day 1 was fairly typical. A lot of skill assessment/skill builder drills (Dot torture variations, etc). We worked a fair amount of steel as well. There was a strong emphasis on speed as well as accuracy. We worked at 21, 30 and occasionally out to 20/25 yards. We worked on building up our split times and our transitions (between target times). One of the great things about Langdon is that he demos everything--and not all trainers do that. Not only does he do it because he loves to shoot and is obviously good at it--but because it is easier to learn something when someone shows you rather than just telling you.
Day 2 involved a lot of shooting on the move (forwards, backwards, side to side, etc), snake drills, shooting from cover (horizontal and vertical). We spent a decent amount of time working on weak and strong hand shooting and of course a bit of time on malfunction clearing. Towards the end of the day we all did a lot of El Pres drills, and what I am calling the "Collateral" drill which involved shooting three IDPA targets from around 5 feet away. Sounds easy, but it ain't. Basically you shoot one to the body of targets 1 and 2, then 2 shots to number three, go back and fire one easy in targets 2 and three, then shoot each one in the face--as fast as hell. The trick here is you aren't supposed to look at your sights, you sort of look at the target with a silhouette of the gun in view. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9HeUjr6R-A. I screwed this one up big time the first time through, I forgot to shoot the 3rd target twice and went back to shoot it--and then shot the targets in the head a few extra times for good measure! Fortunately, a lot of other folks messed this up and I largely redeemed myself the second time through. This is a weirdly tough drill the first time through. We followed this up with an El-Pres drill. All of this stuff was done with all the class looking on and on a timer.
Obviously, there was tons of stuff in this class. And I am not going to list everything we did because you should sign up for a class with E.L. yourself. But here are a few BIG takeaways....
1. Trigger control, trigger control, trigger control. This is 95% of everything. Gun selection, sight alignment, foot position, canting, weak hand, strong hand, shooting on the move--all that stuff is nothing next to controlling your press.
2. Do not incorporate techniques that you are unlikely to be able to perform subconsciously. Everything from stance to your movement while shooting should be as close to "startle response" as possible. This makes a lot of sense but is not necessarily what is being taught everywhere.
3. DA/SA is FAR from a hinderance in competition--despite the internet. Langdon teaches that the DA first shot actually allows you to be prepping the trigger far earlier than you would on a striker gun--which allows a bit of an advantage. Hard to argue with the results.
4. Practice shooting on the move. That's what you are going to be doing in a gunfight.
He is a BIG Beretta guy. And when I say big, I mean he has hands like ET. As far as I can tell he could operate the mag release with his right finger hooked through the trigger guard. But man, that dude is a wizard with that gun.
He prefers appendix carry. He believes that hammer-fired guns are best suited for this type of carry for safety reasons.
The weather was pretty brutal (bright sun high 90s, rain, etc), but Langdon was careful to make sure we had lots of water breaks. Still, everyone was pretty beat down by the end of the day. I was so out of it the first day I locked my damn keys in the trunk (also, I was running on about 4 hours of sleep). Speaking of safety, Langdon is a stickler about safety. I myself ran afoul of the safety rules a few times, but all of his rules were sensible and enforced without fanfare.
Fantastic class. I recommend Langdon to shooters of any skill level.
The VP9 ran perfectly, as expected. One other guy in the class had a VP9 and a guest brought one for some testing. Another guy had a P2000.
800 rounds (all either Federal or Blazer brass).
Let those who are fond of blaming and finding fault, while they sit safely at home, ask, ‘Why did you not do thus and so?’I wish they were on this voyage; I well believe that another voyage of a different kind awaits them.”
Christopher Columbus
Senior Member
Great review Greg and it was great to meet you this afternoon. Hope to see you at a class in the future.
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