Question about optics and combat

[Kain]

Depends on what optics. Obviously ACOGs have a reputation for being built like tanks(Though they have and can go down. And yes teh eye relief sucks, but I do love me my TA01NSN ). Aimpoint's record is also well know and in some eyes an Aimpoint is close to, or as durable as a set of irons. That said, I do have friends who had optics shit the bed on them while overseas and even in combat. Had one friend of mine who was in Iraq who had an Eotech shit the bed twice. For some that Eotech failed is not going to surprise, though I can't recall what model it was exactly, and don't know how old the optic was(First because Eotech's model numbers are only so much gibberish to me, and second because it just now crossed my mind), but I think it also points that that not all optics are made the same as well. I personally like having irons as back ups, if for nothing else than piece of mind because shit does happen. Usually when you don't have extras or back up about.

Example, keep a spare battery with your Aimpoint and it will never run out. Go to the range without spare and optic deader than shit. Trust me, happened to me! Lol. Thank god I had irons or it would have only been point shooting that day.

[TehLlama]

The M68CCOs and TA31/TA01's work fine, and in some cases work even if the weapon they're mounted to has been damaged beyond usability. The newer stuff seems just as durable (Leupold Mk8, S&B Short Dot, VCOG/Mk6/Vortex 1-6x) and the Micro Aimpoints are more durable than they get credit for.
Without a doubt, for combat uses optics earn their spot on weapons for the added capability and are more than robust enough; in my experience Aimpoints, Surefires, ACOGs, and Irons are about as reliable; everything is subject to failure, but it takes some crazy stuff to kill those off most of the time.

[Failure2Stop]

I still always have a set of irons of some sort attached to my guns.

[C-grunt]

I still always have a set of irons of some sort attached to my guns.

This. Aimpoints are incredibly robust. However I do know a guy who had his shot off his rifle.

[TehLlama]

I still always have a set of irons of some sort attached to my guns.

Is there an exception made for precision rifles (e.g. 3-18x and running an offset aimpoint), or is that still a hard and fast desired setup (since the right weather to fog a scope can do the same to an aimpoint)?

[Alpha-17]

In my experience, ACOGs are rock solid, newer Aimpoints are good, older Aimpoints like the Comp2 M68s are a little less so, and EOTechs are much better than their online reputation would make you think. Hell, one of my guys "mistook" his equipment release for his lowering line.... and his weapon nose dived 200-400ft into Sicily Drop Zone. The M4 was bent to hell, with a definite curve to the the carbine, but the EOTech stayed on, and still worked. I'm pretty sure they coded out the M4, but not the EOTech (or the PEQ-15 for that matter).

As for irons, I've seen several issued weapons without rear sights. The issued rear flip up BUIS is pretty much garbage. I'd say half of the ones in my current platoon are broke, and either won't stay down at all, or will pop up every time the weapon is fired. That's not a problem for guys with ACOGs, as sight sits under the ACOG, and can't flip up all the way, but for guys with Aimpoints, I feel sorry. Ruins their sight picture if they're trying to shoot with the damn things down.

[Failure2Stop]

Is there an exception made for precision rifles (e.g. 3-18x and running an offset aimpoint), or is that still a hard and fast desired setup (since the right weather to fog a scope can do the same to an aimpoint)?

I actually prefer offset irons over offset MRDSs, as there are common instances that will take glass out of usefulness.

Now, for a pure game/fun gun I don't have the same insistence on redundant aiming capability, but the 3 big players in my long gun arsenal adhere to it.

[markm]

I can NOT run an Optic ONLY on any gun ever. My OCD requires me to reconcile the irons to the Red Dot before each shoot... and nearly every time I pick up the gun.

[TAZ]

Nephew is at Air Force Academy qualified with m4 and red dot. Never had to use irons. They weren't even mounted. Work buddy's son went through USMC basic. Qualified only with ACOG. Never shown how to use irons. Not even sure how he'd have used irons if they were there. The ACOG was not in a QD mount.

IMO (no combat experience) having BUIS on the gun and knowing how to use them effectively is never a bad thing. However if I found myself on a 2 way range somehow and didn't have BUIS; but only a quality optic I wouldn't feel inadequate.

[GTF425]

Hell, one of my guys "mistook" his equipment release for his lowering line.... and his weapon nose dived 200-400ft into Sicily Drop Zone.

Cherry jumpers + N/CE/MT = deadlined equipment.

There's tons of good info in this thread. A quality optic will perform very well and be more than durable enough to bet your life on. The 4x ACOGs and CompM4s have a battle proven record, but as has been mentioned, the newer glass like the Vortex 1-6, Leupold Mk6/Mk8, Aimpoint Micro, and even the EOTech EXPS' will serve you well.

As for BUIS...I took mine off since I'm issued a TA31. I moved my ACOG back all the way on the receiver to place my head back further when shooting. Having banged my teeth shouldering my rifle more than I'd like to admit, I prefer to run my ACOG this way. Since I don't have a quick detach mount, I'm not going to pull a screwdriver out and take off my ACOG if it goes down, so I just ditched the BUIS. As Alpha-17 stated, the Matech's are garbage anyway.