Advice on helping with recoil on AR 15 5.56

[MILSPEC556]

I just noticed the OP's last post. I was responding to his original one.

"However, I must say I may likely not be around much since it... blah blah blah"

If that's his attitude, he won't do well here.

At this forum you'll find very knowledgeable folks that are more than willing to help you out with useful advice and support. They'll also call you on your bullshit, tell you when you're wrong and when you're being an ass. And I mean "you" in a general sense, not the OP, lest he think I'm somehow insulting him.

Also, let's face it. The first reaction of most folks to an adult complaining about recoil on an AR was "huh?". If you can't take a little ribbing, you might rethink participating in internet forums in general.

Agreed. It's hard for me to show compassion to a grown ass man whining about recoil on a low recoil weapon then whining about"youre so rude blah blah" I MAKE time from work to weight train 7days a week along with cardio to go along with my weapons training. I feel no recoil on my AR's. On my precision rifles that do kick like a mule, the shit excites me. People need to harden the F up.

[Phreakish]

Thanks again to those that posted REAL solutions without the attitude. Of course it's simple to say hey you're just weak, workout more, etc. without providing an ounce of helpful suggestions. It must be nice to have a job or life that allows you to get workouts in while on the job or finding time to "hit the gym". Obviously, those people missed the part that said I am in very thin and toned condition, well within my BMI. In fact, my Doctor said I was in excellent physical shape for a man my age. It's just that I have physical problems due to my RSS, otherwise no big deal.

I have enough GOOD advice now from those that were kind to post without being rude. However, I must say I may likely not be around much since it seems there are so many willing to throw insults. Mainly, I noticed it came from those with very few posts themselves, but not exactly a good experience. So, I'm signing off this thread and thank those that did in fact help with some useful advice to try.

Best wishes

It's tough for people to relate who haven't suffered from similar issues, and the internet always comes with a certain amount of snark. Enough on that, though.

I too suffer from RSS in my wrists, shoulders, and back due to working at a computer for long hours and some past injuries suffered while weight lifting. Suffice to say, sometimes a .22lr is about all my shoulder will put up with. Some of the suggestions for working on the 'software' side are good, and are generally good practice no matter what.

That said, if you've the resources, try and shoot a variety of setups. Borrow other guns, or see if others at the range will let you 'test drive' their setups. There are so many parts out there, and so many different variations that one could assemble that to try and suggest a best setup for you is nearly impossible.

What role is your AR used for? Home defense? Long range? Run and gun? Competition? Shooting from a bench or prone only?

In general, there are several areas to focus to reduce recoil:
*Reciprocating assembly.
*Muzzle devices.
*Stocks.
*Gimmicks.

The reciprocating assembly includes the bolt carrier group, buffer, and action spring. This assembly is driven by gasses bled off the barrel and there are many different flavors of gas system. Pistol, Carbine, Mid-length, Intermediate, and Rifle. These can be combined with a seemingly endless number of barrel lengths. Some combinations result in more pressure and volume of gas delivered to the bolt carrier group and cause the reciprocating assembly to move more rapidly. This can be good in some instances, bad in others. In your case, too much will result in more felt recoil and more discomfort.
I would suggest looking at a 14.5" mid length system, or 16" mid length. This is where being able to 'test drive' can help, versus spending money on something that might not do what you want.
Aside from the gas system, there are also different buffers, springs, carriers, etc. The VLTOR A5 system (which I helped produce with ESK at VLTOR) uses a rifle spring and a custom buffer and tube to retain a collapsible stock while smoothing the reciprocating assembly. Originally designed to offer a collapsible stock without a compromise in reliability when compared to a rifle system, we found that the inherent characteristics also help reduce felt recoil and the patented buffer assembly eliminates bolt-bounce as well (not a huge concern in your case, but a side benefit no less).

Muzzle devices include brakes, comps, flash hiders and suppressors. It is also one of the most hotly contested areas as far as what works best. 5.56 fires a 55 or 62 grain (in most cases) projectile at over 3,000 ft/s and uses a powder charge of around 20 grains that's capable of traveling between two and four times faster than the projectile (once the bullet leaves the barrel, of course, and is allowed to expand). Conservation of momentum thus tells us that propellant gasses contribute almost as much recoil as the projectile itself. This is even before the force of the reciprocating assembly is taken into account. Thus, muzzle devices are definitely an area to investigate. Brakes focus on reducing felt recoil, but they also increase the pressure wave felt by the shooter and the sound/concussion suffered by those next to you. Many are also just plain goofy looking, if aesthetics matter. Compensators tend to focus on reducing muzzle rise, but will also offer some measure of recoil mitigation. Flash hiders will do what they say, and some offer a measure of recoil reduction as well as compensation.

There are as many stocks available as anything else for your AR15. From small and unpadded to spring loaded gas assisted recoil absorbing mechanisms (see gimmicks section). When it comes to felt recoil, thick and supple rubber butt pads will help. The VLTOR Emod has a very soft and 1/2" thick pad that is wider than most and helps spread the energy out pretty well. The Imod is lighter and offers similar, but the pad is thinner and not quite as wide as an Emod. Magpul offers their line of stocks as well, but their buttpads tend to be harder and the edge radii are sharper. I've not felt a difference myself, but it's worth looking into. Again, test driving different parts can help you make this choice.

The rest of the methods I will throw into the gimmick pile. This includes hydraulic buffers, recoiling tubes, and other items which add weight and complexity for a very small reduction of felt recoil. Typically they cost a lot, and while many are effective, they offer either a significant number of new failure points to the system or reduce the utility of the weapon too severely to be worth what they offer. That said, this is a very subjective area, so if it works it's tough to call it stupid.

My personal experience tells me that I can shoot all day long with an A5 system and a properly setup gas system/barrel length combo regardless of weapon weight or the stock used. When I'm really sore to begin with, I'll shift the stock closer to my chest and raise the stock toward my shoulder to avoid too much 'scrunching'.

[TexanInCali]

I've got bad RSS in my wrist, forearm and elbow, so I can empathize. I'm pretty constantly in pain from the RSS, along with my herniated lumbar disc, plantar fasciitis and bad knees. A lifetime of athletics and computer programming have left my body a mess. Still, I suck it up, don't complain and don't let it slow me down too much. I certainly don't let it stop me from shooting or other fun activities.

A few suggestions to help shooting with RSS. The most important thing is wrist alignment. Go to a good gun shop and try out different pistol grips. BCM, Magpul, Tangodown, Ergo and others make grips with a variety of angles. Find one that you can hold without discomfort. You'd be surprised what a difference a few degrees can make. I think your Colt comes with an A2 grip. If you haven't changed it, this would be a good, inexpensive upgrade.

The same goes for your support hand. Try a variety of VFGs, handstops and others like AFG, Lanco Grip Stop, etc. You want to find a good comfortable grip that let's you control your rifle while maintaining a good grip angle.

In addition to keeping your hands and wrists more comfortable, they'll also help you pull the stock into your shoulder solidly.

[tb-av]

Thanks again to those that posted REAL solutions without the attitude. Of course it's simple to say hey you're just weak, workout more, etc. without providing an ounce of helpful suggestions. It must be nice to have a job or life that allows you to get workouts in while on the job or finding time to "hit the gym". Obviously, those people missed the part that said I am in very thin and toned condition, well within my BMI. In fact, my Doctor said I was in excellent physical shape for a man my age. It's just that I have physical problems due to my RSS, otherwise no big deal.

I have enough GOOD advice now from those that were kind to post without being rude. However, I must say I may likely not be around much since it seems there are so many willing to throw insults. Mainly, I noticed it came from those with very few posts themselves, but not exactly a good experience. So, I'm signing off this thread and thank those that did in fact help with some useful advice to try.

Best wishes

Nothing is free.....

I'm 60 years old. Small frame, sit at a computer way more than 8 hours a day and have done so for a looooong time. Yes, you really do need to build up your upper body. I have had to learn to do push ups and pull ups and you are going to have to do something to cure your RSI. New desk, mouse, keyboard or whatever it takes. To me, my mid-length feels like someone simply grabs the hand guard and snaps the pushes the rifle into my shoulder. It's like a quick shake and not anything that resembles a true "recoil" ... certainly not like a shotgun... but... if you have a Magpul stock. They make a pad that comes on their commercial stock(airsoft) it's twice as think rubber pad that will screw right on your Milspec Magpul stock. I would look for one of them first off.

Then set yourself a goal to cure your cronic pain and maybe be able to do 25 pushups and 2 pullups in a year from now. If you have a certain spot on your shoulder you could probably get a strip of sorbathane(like shoe inserts) and have someone sew it into a little pocket on a shirt. Again the goal being, cure yourself and eliminate the need for unusual amounts of cushioning. 30 rounds on an AR to the point it causes pain is just not normal. I know people discuss recoil and strive to get the muzzle to sit still but I have actually never heard anyone discuss AR recoil and pain/discomfort. That is in fact one of the pros of an AR in that it is basically pain free to shoot ( except having to hold the weight of it ).

Seriously though if you are having problems to the degree you state then someone's post count should be the last thing on your mind.

[Koshinn]

Have someone take a picture of your stance when you shoot standing and it hurts. Post it here.

[ptmccain]

Have someone take a picture of your stance when you shoot standing and it hurts. Post it here.

Good advice, please do that and maybe we can help to diagnose what you may be doing that can be improved.

Just ignore the jerks, as you can surely see there is a lot of interest in helping you out.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[PaLEOjd]

This is the first time I have ever heard a complaint about too much recoil from an AR platform rifle. Really interested to see what's going on. Is it possible to get pictures of stance and how you are holding the rifle? My wife is all of 5'1" tall and around 130-135lbs. and has never had an issue with her Colt. Curious to see why you are having such issues.

[kirkland]

You must have missed my first post. It's a Colt 6920 SOCOM MK II with a full length free-floating quad rail and magpul stock.

I did miss that, my bad, hope you're not counting my comment as one of the "snarky" ones, was just trying to come up with some advice that hadn't already been given. What I said was true, a heavier rifle will recoil less, a lighter one more. Simple. That's why my winchester model 70 featherweight in 30-06 kicks like a friggin mule. Then again, maybe you don't want to hold a heavier rifle with your condition idk.. I agree with a lot of the advice about working on stance and technique. Find a position that works well and doesn't hurt. Good luck.

[Zim]

I might have missed something, but I didn't think any of the advice given was actually "rude."

[Surf]

Thanks again to those that posted REAL solutions without the attitude. Of course it's simple to say hey you're just weak, workout more, etc. without providing an ounce of helpful suggestions. It must be nice to have a job or life that allows you to get workouts in while on the job or finding time to "hit the gym"..... /snip

I like to think I am one of the more even keeled types on this forum that rarely likes to ruffle anyone's feathers, especially new members, however I really didn't see much rude advice either until this post and even what followed was pretty darn mild considering your reaction.

Try to provide as much information as possible. More information = more accurate answers that will be suited to your own specific needs. I also deal with individuals with legitimate physical issues as do many instructors. That is a key bit of information that may have provided many here to perhaps give more advice on adapting your equipment to suit those specific needs.

This forum has many who are eager to help, but there is no doubt those who will quickly give you the business. While not pleasant, most of the time it is not completely out of left field and more often than not, brought upon by the original poster themselves. I will however say that I don't think you were treated rudely. With the information provided in your original post, the correct advice was given without malice. Having some type of medical condition, or even disability completely changes the situation when it comes to equipment needs vs. technique. Technique is still correct, but looking into equipment needs is also prudent.