That’s interesting, thanks for sharing. I’ve ever heard of another teacher using the side shuffle step. I need to revisit that.
That’s interesting, thanks for sharing. I’ve ever heard of another teacher using the side shuffle step. I need to revisit that.
To answer your questions T2C:
360 Degrees of Threat: no, we were not told to look up and down.
One Eye Open: He got his opinion on not using both eyes open from an eye doctor. Like I said, he gave a lengthy discourse in why this is bad. Unfortunately, I can’t remember the details to share with you. Just kept thinking, “He’s telling me what I’ve been doing for years is impossible.”
Press Checks are Useless: His only reason for not doing this was it’s just bad to take your gun out of battery. During a gun fight, I would agree. Any other time, it’s pretty quick and easy to get it back into battery.
Bring the Gun Back: This was taught from a static position. Don’t remember his logic for this but I don’t think it was weapon retention.
Always Power Rack the Slide: His reason for emphasizing the power-rack was due to it involving less fine-motor skills. As I mentioned, trigger manipulation and mag release are also fine motor skills that we train around so why not this? I can see some value in being consistent with clearing malfunctions but not at the expense of wasting so much time during an emergency reload.
Tough Love: Class size was around 15. I don’t feel it was too many for him to watch but I couldn’t say. The other classes I’ve been to were roughly the same size and the instructors seemed to handle the number fine.
No, he never demonstrated any of the drills. I don’t think a good instructor has to be a top shot or have combat experience to teach others but I do appreciate teachers that can demontsrate their techniques and do their own drills.
I disagree. An instructor should be capable of performing a drill to the standard he enforces. That is what gives credibility with regards to being an instructor.
With regards to experience, an instructor who teaches anything "combat" should have a relevant background.
Negative, manipulating the trigger, mag release and bolt catch/slide stop are not fine motor skills -> they are related to manual dexterity.Always Power Rack the Slide: His reason for emphasizing the power-rack was due to it involving less fine-motor skills. As I mentioned, trigger manipulation and mag release are also fine motor skills that we train around so why not this? I can see some value in being consistent with clearing malfunctions but not at the expense of wasting so much time during an emergency reload.
Fine motor skills and gross motor skills are terms used to describe motor development in children.
Last edited by Arctic1; 07-22-14 at 09:51.
It's not about surviving, it's about winning!
@T2C:
Again, it depends on what you are doing. Diagnostics of fundamentals, technique training etc might require you to shoot only one round, or shoot the same number of rounds over many iterations.I agree with this concept. Never shoot only one round, and never the same number of rounds. You never know how many rounds it will take to resolve a conflict
For scenario training I agree that you should vary the number of rounds fired. The same with pushing yourself with regards to speed while maintaining accuracy.
It's not about surviving, it's about winning!
"Never" is a very constraining word. What if the scenario involved a hostage, or a target, that is moving in and out of cover? Do you still shoot multiple shots that will have no effect, or negative effects? Or shoot one well timed, and well aimed, shot at the moment you have available?
Never should rarely be used to describe anything that could be so fluid.
"I'm not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The... tactleneck! - Sterling Archer"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important
than one's fear. The timid presume it is lack of fear that allows the brave to act when the timid do not."
re: never shoot one round
Rob Vogel kind of advocates the same thing -iirc - he had us shooting 6 most of the time - his rationale (and I agree) was that grip problems don't usually surface in the first one or two shots. To be clear it wasn't 'never fire only one shot' it was a general thing.
IMO 15 shooters on one line is too many for a single instructor to monitor safety and offer instructional feedback - which is what I go to a course for. As an example, I will attend another Vogel course because he had a system devised in which he offered each student feedback during drills.
Single shots have their place. I used to fire multiple shots regardless of target area until I had a chance to work with Scott Reitz. He had us only fire single rounds when engaging the head of target due to backstop (aka the head) disappearing should your first round do what it's supposed to do
They also have their place in some diagnostic drills
While true, side stepping should not be a rote, default action. If you have other shooters, in real life or in practice, on either side of you, you risk either bumping them off of a shot, or getting in their way. In other scenarios, side stepping automatically can also cause you to lose situational awareness, or lose track of the target. In other cases, like the traffic stop shooting for cops, sidestepping may not be possible, or it may be hazardous due to environmental conditions. I put together a range session a few months back, for our crowd control unit. In some of their formations, it would be a no-go.Shooting on the move and being able to load/clear malfunctions on the move makes sense. With multiple students on a structured range, it is difficult to practice this concept. Presenting yourself as a stationary target is not something I would want to teach. Perhaps someone else can comment on the advantages of standing in one spot while engaging a threat and manipulating a firearm.
I had a real-life scenario last year, where sidestepping to my left would have created a crossfire with one officer. Going to the right would have caused another partner to laser me. I needed to move, since the threat was inbound. So I moved backwards, shooting.
Side stepping is probably appropriate in the majority of self defense shootings. In some cases, it can make things worse. It's up to the shooter to be able to assess their situation and select the appropriate tactic. The shoothouse, and sims, are great ways to learn and demonstrate the technique's advantages and limitations.
A year or two ago there was a T&T thread discussing "range kata". There were some great contributors in there. One of whom, one of our SMEs, highlighted how his unit's stress inoculation (via training, exposure, etc.) aided them in maintaining SA even if they did not practice it on the square range. I also suspect that Travis Haley's concept of "thinkers before shooters" is closely related to the idea of being able to select a response amid stress, vs rote reaction.
The advice above is worth exactly what you paid for it.
This is a very good thread and a lot of the comments are worth reading.
In my personal experience, the pistol course I have been teaching is not taught exactly like it was one year ago. Like Surf said, I would be careful about learning from anyone who touts teaching a system.
I stand corrected on my earlier comment. Perhaps I could have worded my comment better. If one round resolves the problem, then one round is sufficient. I don't think anyone can predict how many rounds will resolve a problem until faced with it and they should train accordingly.
I am a firm believer in being fluid, in that if what I tried fails to work I should immediately move onto another solution to the problem. At a minimum, students should walk away from a course with the mindset to continue training to smoothly respond to changes in a confrontation while strengthening basic skills sets.
Let's keep the discussion going.
Last edited by T2C; 07-22-14 at 14:15.
Train 2 Win
Bookmarks