Parts ain't parts and other miscellaneous musings.

[Iraqgunz]

I wanted to post some recent observations from the last several months of doing classes and seeing different AR's. I would say that a good 60% of the stuff I am seeing are home built. A good percentage of those have a combination of good parts mixed with questionable ones. BCG's of unknown origin, LPK's that were on "special", etc... Often times I am seeing weapons that have not been properly assembled (torque values, lack of Loctite, non-dimpled barrels and low profile gas blocks, etc..).

In the current market it is even worse because there are companies unloading parts as fast as possible onto the market. If anyone thinks a 99.00 BCG is going to perform like a 159.00 one from a quality proven company you are wrong.

I am still seeing a lot of crappy stakings as well. In the last class one particular carbine had a barrel nut that was not much more than hand tight, no Loctite on the gas block screws, non-dimpled barrel, no Loctite on the screws for the rail, a broken hammer spring and flash hider was improperly timed.

Here's a pic of an AR Stoner BCG sold by Midway. I would be curious to see if this is standard for them or just slipped through. The stakings were sub-par and the front screw came out with no effort. As you can see there is no parkerizing below the key or top of the carrier.

AR Stoner BCG.jpg

[MorphCross]

To borrow a common colloquialism, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" or it is more like the typical bargain shopper we see in big box stores. You try to tell them that x entry door is substandard compared to y entry door because a,b, and c yet they think, "it is an entry door what do I care that it's made of a lighter steel skin or that the jamb runs to the ground, or that there is no hole drilled for a deadbolt?" There are those who will go with value no matter how you encourage them to at least step up to something that will last longer, be lower maintenance, and be more secure.

[cd228]

Thanks for sharing that data. I wish the "as good as" crew would listen. However, it does reaffirm my belief in buying for know good manufacturers. It also astounds me how many hobby builders don't use a torqure wrench or understand staking. Then again, when I started out, I wasn't that smart either.
Thanks again.

[Kain]

Actually was thinking more "You get what you pay for." Though there are exceptions to that with some of these ARs out there, usually from small local companies going for the high end market with catchy phrases, and marketing to the lowest common denominator, currently that are more than a comparable DD or BCM in price and the parts that are used are from god knows where and to specs that are unknown at best. I see a lot of local guns stores that "specialize" or build ARs that do that, banking on people going with the "It was built local." thing, or wanting a lower that has the name of the town they live in or near on it thinking that makes it better for some reason.

Any more I've come to the conclusion that I might as well just save up and buy exactly what I want and be done with it rather than worry about trying to save $20 bucks here, or $30 bucks there. In the end, even if I end up spending $200 or even $400 more on an AR than I would have liked, I get the rifle that is one what I wanted and two that I am not going to have to worry about going to shit in under 3K rounds. Besides, think of it this way, in the long run, what the hell is $200 bucks? And hell, if you buy something with the plans of upgrading later, you are still going to lose money, and even if you get the item you really wanted on sale like I did in the end for one rail system guess what it ended up costing me the same money in the long run!

Also, in the last month or so, I would make the argument, that there is no damn reason to buy shitty AR parts. What with Colts popping up for $799 in several places, BCM having a massive sale on cosmo blem uppers (Yes bought one, and am seriously thinking of another one, the blem 14.5 socom uppers(Sorry IG) for a future build), BCM BCGs dropping down to $170, and quality parts not out of stock everywhere at prices at or better than what they were before the shit hit the fan.

Why buy shitty parts?

People are cheap and lazy that's why!

[tog]

I never thought about Parkerizing under the key or on top of the carrier. How can we know this is accomplished on other bcg's without taking them apart? Thanks for the insight.

[cd228]

Why buy shitty parts?

People are cheap and lazy that's why!

I'd also include uneducated.

[fixit69]

Actually was thinking more "You get what you pay for." Though there are exceptions to that with some of these ARs out there, usually from small local companies going for the high end market with catchy phrases, and marketing to the lowest common denominator, currently that are more than a comparable DD or BCM in price and the parts that are used are from god knows where and to specs that are unknown at best. I see a lot of local guns stores that "specialize" or build ARs that do that, banking on people going with the "It was built local." thing, or wanting a lower that has the name of the town they live in or near on it thinking that makes it better for some reason.

Any more I've come to the conclusion that I might as well just save up and buy exactly what I want and be done with it rather than worry about trying to save $20 bucks here, or $30 bucks there. In the end, even if I end up spending $200 or even $400 more on an AR than I would have liked, I get the rifle that is one what I wanted and two that I am not going to have to worry about going to shit in under 3K rounds. Besides, think of it this way, in the long run, what the hell is $200 bucks? And hell, if you buy something with the plans of upgrading later, you are still going to lose money, and even if you get the item you really wanted on sale like I did in the end for one rail system guess what it ended up costing me the same money in the long run!

Also, in the last month or so, I would make the argument, that there is no damn reason to buy shitty AR parts. What with Colts popping up for $799 in several places, BCM having a massive sale on cosmo blem uppers (Yes bought one, and am seriously thinking of another one, the blem 14.5 socom uppers(Sorry IG) for a future build), BCM BCGs dropping down to $170, and quality parts not out of stock everywhere at prices at or better than what they were before the shit hit the fan.

Why buy shitty parts?

People are cheap and lazy that's why!

I agree with everything you said... But, be carful of the "you get what you pay for" saying. A guy I know is putting together parts and he asked quite a few questions, and one time he asked about some part and I said that saying. His reply so I'm good to go with DPMS or bushmaster, cause it's the same or more than Xgtg brand? I facepalmed myself really hard, and went though the whole thing again.

[Grand58742]

I agree with everything you said... But, be carful of the "you get what you pay for" saying. A guy I know is putting together parts and he asked quite a few questions, and one time he asked about some part and I said that saying. His reply so I'm good to go with DPMS or bushmaster, cause it's the same or more than Xgtg brand? I facepalmed myself really hard, and went though the whole thing again.

This. I mean, some manufacturers are charging a premium price for what amounts to lesser parts. Rock River comes immediately to mind.

[markm]

I never thought about Parkerizing under the key or on top of the carrier. How can we know this is accomplished on other bcg's without taking them apart? Thanks for the insight.

Why would you want that? You want a near mirror finish for those surfaces. Some armorer's lap and seal the key to the carrier.

I'll at a minimum smooth the bottom of the key with 400 grit. I've done a lapping job on one or two as well.

[Phreakish]

Why would you want that? You want a near mirror finish for those surfaces. Some armorer's lap and seal the key to the carrier.

I'll at a minimum smooth the bottom of the key with 400 grit. I've done a lapping job on one or two as well.

Why would you want it? Phosphate helps mitigate rust. It's also friable, so when the two parts come together the coating effectively 'crushes' the fine tips and peaks of the coating and can make an excellent seal without having to have mirror finished parts, as the finish will allow some surface variance to fill in as the two parts come together. Also, not for nothing, if the two surfaces are mirror finish it won't amount to a hill of beans if they're not also very FLAT. Some of us know how to accomplish that, many don't. Hand lapping a production part is simply more cost than it's worth since any shop making carriers should have grinding capability which will yield the necessary finish and flatness, even after coatings.

My greater concern would be with how the parts were phosphate coated. If done as an assembly, I would have major reservations. The phosphoric acid used will get into every little gap and cranny in there and cause drama down the road. It likes to 'bleed' out and when it's in contact with steel below the coating temperature (180-210 deg F) it can cause pitting and rust rather than phosphate deposition. In this case, it's not a matter of having the coating between the parts, but rather what is considered good practice. I look at the picture above and it's obvious the carrier was phosphate coated after assembly. No phosphate under the screw heads, in the threads, or in the counterbores where the screw heads reside. The threads would be a concern to me. Rust or pitting in this area will eventually fail the screw(s) and can cause the key to separate (even if they were torqued correctly) and cause significant damage as well as a putting the rifle down for the count. That's simply not acceptable for something upon which a person might stake their life.

Many shops take shortcuts like this because "its just as good" and it saves them time since they don't have to rack each one of those parts for coating, then stake them, then touch-up the staked area to ensure there's no bare material visible. It saves them a few bucks, and the typical buyer won't know the difference. Unfortunately, these are often choices made by folks that simply don't understand exactly how these parts function and rather than work toward efficient means of production they take the 'made in china' route and cut corners.

Properly phosphate coated parts require the chrome plated surfaces to be protected from the phosphoric acid, which is also another cost consideration (masking/plugging). This is easier to do when two chrome plated parts (if they have chrome on them, and if they care to mask them properly) are bolted together and can be masked once instead of twice separately.

In the end, it is very difficult for any consumer to know what's GTG and what isn't simply by looking at it. Company reputation and evaluation by those that really know what's what is very important.