What are Realistic Pistol Shooting Accuracy and Times for most people

[Failure2Stop]

I have always considered anything outside the black to be a failure, and for score from the draw only.

[ptmccain]

If you can put rounds into a hand-sized area on a standard torso target while moving, running, various positions, shooting from cover, under stress, timed, with other people blasting away around you, you are doing just fine.

Sounds like you are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

Practice. Practice. Practice.

[Failure2Stop]

I think I remember seeing a Larry Vickers comment on a 7 yard A Zone hit from draw in 1.5 sec. is considered “good”. Not to debate his wisdom, but I am not sure of the context. Good for most shooters, or good for the elite level shooter?

My context is this:
I consider 250 Hackathorn, 5 sec. bill drill, and Kyle Defoor shooting test for the elite level shooter, I am not sure most (the average shooter) could do it. I understand proper training techniques and amount of practice goes a long way, but I could practice all day every day and NEVER be able to beat Michael Jordan in a game of one on one, hit a Noland Ryan Fastball, or shoot with a Vickers, Hackathorn, Defoor…. And I don’t believe most could. Elite level shooters are elite level athletes, they just have different God Given talents.
I have tried some of the drills posted, and while some were doable some kicked my ASS. I think once you learn how to shoot the different drills (become familiar with the drills) and develop a rhythm times, can be improved.

I am equally amazed by some of the good shooters as I am with how bad some are. They are able to hit a silhouette target at 20’ and think they are good to go!

For you guys that either, train shooters, average to elite level, shoot with them, or are one, what do you think are realistic groups and times that you feel most shooters should be able to achieve?

I have seem to hit a wall in reference to speed and accuracy and I think I should be able to get better, so just looking for some insight from those of you that are able to do it. I have also noticed my dry fire training (In theory) is Always better ( Faster) than my actual shooting.

Some times for point of reference:
All Shot from low ready

3 Yards 5 shots each – All within a 5”x5” (Farthest 2 shots) group
.94-2.73
1.05-3.10
.95-2.78
.97-2.88

7 Yards 5 shots each – All within a 7”x7” (Farthest 2 shots) group
1-3.13
1.05-7.16 – I had a FTF, and Choked
1.22-3.74
1.13-3.85

Standing, static target, 7 yards, draw to headshot in 1.5, 100%.

My definition of headshot:
Easy: IDPA head.
Medium: 5" circle.
Advanced: 3x5 card.
Expert: 3" circle.

When you can meet one level on a consistent basis "cold", increase difficulty. Then try to meet 2 shots in that time, with increasing difficulty of target.

Success in a gunfight is not about split times, but the consistent successful delivery of projectiles into specific areas until compliance is gained.

[Arctic1]

I have always considered anything outside the black to be a failure, and for score from the draw only.

Found this just now:

http://soldiersystems.net/2012/11/10...rry-vickers-5/

And yeah, I "should" have all in the black for my cold run. Constantly working on improving.

[Arctic1]

Standing, static target, draw to headshot in 1.5, 100%.

My definition of headshot:
Easy: IDPA head.
Medium: 5" circle.
Advanced: 3x5 card.
Expert: 3" circle.

When you can meet one level on a consistent basis "cold", increase difficulty. Then try to meet 2 shots in that time, with increasing difficulty of target.

Success in a gunfight is not about split times, but the consistent successful delivery of projectiles into specific areas until compliance is gained.

Any comments on distance and holster type?

[Failure2Stop]

Any comments on distance and holster type?

Just edited original; 7 yards.

Holster and concealment to be in accordance with reality. Doesn't matter to the bad guy if you are carrying a level 4 retention duty holster or AIWB. You gotta make the shot you gotta take as fast as possible in the condition you show up.

[Arctic1]

Thanks.

Going to get relevant targets and try to see what I can do next time I hit the range.

[C4IGrant]

Copy on the target. I should use the repair center for the B-8. Don't think it will make that big a difference, for me at least.
They said B-8 in the vid, so that is what I purchased. I do have a bunch of repair centers as well.

Wrt to the ready position, I went with what was shown in the video. Does not matter, I can shoot it from the low ready and with a draw next time. What is the correct "low ready" that you reference? Arms extended from body, pistol pointed towards ground at a 45 degree angle?

ETA: The way I shot the drill in the vids is not a result of me not wanting to shoot it correctly, or not being able to.
I used the vid as a reference.

Will try it with the correct target and correct ready position next time.

Low ready is a having the gun at a 45 degree angle.



C4

[Arctic1]

That is my understanding as well, but I want to make sure as there are many different takes on the different ready positions.

[Arctic1]

I think this post by Mike Pannone is relevant here:

http://soldiersystems.net/2014/06/28...ke-pannone-20/

Gunfighter Moment – Mike Pannone

The educated shooter is invariably the best shooter he or she can be, or at a minimum is on the right track for success. I often hear people in classes or read on the internet comments about how this drill or that one is “not realistic” or “would be meaningless in a real threat situation”. The problem is they don’t understand the difference between a drill and a scenario.

The definition of a drill as per Merriam-Webster is “a physical or mental exercise aimed at perfecting facility and skill especially by regular practice”. I articulate it in my classes as “the exercise of a component skill or technique for refinement and evaluation.” A scenario as per Merriam-Webster is “a sequence of events especially when imagined”. In classes, I define it as “a situation created to evaluate judgment and the selection and application of component skills or techniques.” A drill tests a technique and a scenario evaluates both judgment and the application of techniques. How you assemble a certain sequence of techniques is called tactics. Don’t confuse drills with tactics.

In summary, selected techniques are used to create and employ tactics within the guidelines of established principles of a given system or doctrine.

Training is science and without a logical approach it is sabotaged from the start. Be smart and train smart. That’s how the best at any skill have gotten there!