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This leaves me a bit curious, would a USPS Money Order be any less scam prone? Essentially you're sending money based entirely on trusting that the person will actually send the product. I kind of figured the itrader rating and forum reputation was what was keeping people honest. I don't use Paypal at all, especially not around here since I've heard that anything firearms related can lead to an account being locked. I've used nothing but money orders to purchase from here, TOS and Gunbroker and luckily every transaction has gone great. I also only buy from sellers with perfect ratings as well as several transactions and the most expensive purchase I ever made was something like $250, so I'm not really opening myself to a lot of risk. I also look for someone who posts in other areas of the forum with some regularity which indicates to me that they probably place some value their reputation in the community.
It seems like a little common sense would go a long way here. I suppose at least with a money order you have an address or PO Box to go off of. The only time I got a little suspicious was when a seller only gave me a first name, last initial and a PO Box. I almost backed out but looking at her itrader rating she appeared to be an excellent seller. She even had a good rating from someone with a colorful username. I chalked it up to a woman using some common sense of her own when dealing with a group of primarily men and rolled the dice. It paid off because it was actually one of the best transactions I've had.
It's funny how many WTS adds I've seen pop up in the last two days with "Paypal Gift/discrete" right in the idiot's post.
I get a kick out of flagrant stupidity.
"What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v
Your legal recourse won't be through the USPS, they only get involved in cases of stolen, forged or altered money orders. Your not protected by mail fraud laws either. Mail fraud only pertains to the USPS mail system being used to fraudulently solicit funds, not just because you used a USPS money order or mailed it using the postal system, and even then it usually has to be a "scheme" or ongoing pattern of fraud.
As you said, it will offer better evidence than a "Gift" if handled through local law enforcement or civil courts.
A personal check is even better, since many banks offer you protection in these matters.
Sent from my PG41200 using Tapatalk 2
Last edited by BBossman; 08-22-14 at 08:33.
Up men! Up! And to your posts! Let no man forget today that he is from Old Virginia! - General George Pickett
I was under the impression that folks used the "gift" method on PayPal because of their policy about firearms-related transactions?
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/he...TIONS_US&m=TCI
We don’t allow PayPal members to buy or sell any kind of firearm, whether it’s in working order or not. The same goes for certain firearm parts and ammunition.
For example, using PayPal, you can’t buy or sell:
•Any firearm, including rifles, shotguns, and handguns, whether they’re for sport and recreation, collectibles, or curio or relic firearms.
•Firearm parts, including but not limited to receivers and frames, silencers, and kits designed to modify guns so that they fire automatically. High capacity magazines, multi-burst trigger activators, and camouflaging firearm containers are other items in this category.
•Ammunition, including propellants like gunpowder or blank ammunition; ammunition or cartridge cases; and primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for any firearm.
This. I am new here, hence the low post count, but I am concerned that everyone seems to miss the point that using PayPal gift for exchange of goods is a violation of the PayPal's User Agreement. While I am not accusing the established members on EE of being crooks, stating that one accepts PayPal gift in lieu of the fees for using PayPal's service is itself advertising potential theft of services. To put it another way, PayPal could cause a big problem for this site if the EE is filled with sellers who accept PayPal gift.
From PayPal User Agreement:
4. Receiving Money.
4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase.If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.
https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/u...reement-full#4
It behooves you all to also be familiar with the Acceptable Use policy. PayPal could flat out deny you any type of support simply due to the nature of this site and the items that appear on EE.
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mp...ptableuse-full
I admit that I'm just as quick as everyone else to just start clicking through the End User Agreements, acknowledgements, etc each time I upgrade software, log into a site, etc, but in the end, we are responsible for reading, understanding, agreeing to and complying with the terms of service for vendors.
So I have been on the other side of the PayPal gift, goods fence. A few years back, I sold a guy a 400 dollar car part. He paid me with the goods and services option. I sent him the part, he received it, and this is where I get screwed. He took the new part out of the box, put his old part in there, and opened up a dispute with paypal. He took a bunch of pictures of his old part, and sent them to paypal claiming I sent him a junk part. Soon as he gave paypal the return shipping tracking number, Paypal reversed the transaction. So he got a new part, and his money back. And what was I left with... a junk part and no money. When I tried to dispute his dispute, they said they I had no proof that I sent him the part "new" and from his proof, showing a bad part in the box as if I shipped it, that they determined I was at fault. I didn't have my account linked to my bank, so I couldn't dispute it from them. Just a really bad situation. I think if you have positive feedback.. like I do, is a lot safer to have someone send a "gift" if they do not have positive feedback. But again, I look at the buyers feedback before I agree to sell anything. If they have zero, I request "gift" or USPS MO. Then again, in all the stuff I have posted for sale, I give the option for USPS MO also.. There is never anyway around having someone at risk in online dealings. Buyer or seller.
And we haven't even got into the whole firearms related goods on paypal thing..
Someone could always set up a sort of escrow service for the additional cost of like 2 shipping fees and some money to make it worthwhile. Would also have to be a FFL I think.
"I never learned from a man who agreed with me." Robert A. Heinlein
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