26" OAL + SB15 + VFG Clarification

[Pi3]

how much of a handstop can be put on the bottom of the rail before it is considered a VFG?

[ac130usnsr]

This is all being over thought. Keys to understanding it all;

A. Sig brace irrelevent to any of it.
B. "Concealable"; for ATF means easily concealed on one's person, has nothing to do with CCP/CCW.
C. ATF definition of pistol (no length requirement); designed to be fired with one hand.
D. ATF definition of rifle; with stock, designed to be fired from the shoulder.
E. ATF definition of SBR; rifle with barrel <16".
F. ATF definition of AOW; neither pistol nor rifle, with an OAL <26".
G. ATF definition of firearm; neither a pistol nor rifle, with OAL ≥26".

So, add a VFG to a pistol with an OAL<26" and you have created an illegal AOW (no longer a pistol, now designed to be fired with two hands).

Add a VFG to a pistol with an OAL ≥26" and you have converted a pistol to a firearm (which is not an NFA item).

[uffdaphil]

This is all being over thought. Keys to understanding it all;

A. Sig brace irrelevent to any of it.
B. "Concealable"; for ATF means easily concealed on one's person, has nothing to do with CCP/CCW.
C. ATF definition of pistol (no length requirement); designed to be fired with one hand.
D. ATF definition of rifle; with stock, designed to be fired from the shoulder.
E. ATF definition of SBR; rifle with barrel <16".
F. ATF definition of AOW; neither pistol nor rifle, with an OAL <26".
G. ATF definition of firearm; neither a pistol nor rifle, with OAL ≥26".

So, add a VFG to a pistol with an OAL<26" and you have created an illegal AOW (no longer a pistol, now designed to be fired with two hands).

Add a VFG to a pistol with an OAL ≥26" and you have converted a pistol to a firearm (which is not an NFA item).

Bravo Herkyman. I wish I could be so concise.

[sig chaser]

Here is my issue with all of this. Most of us use the VFG as more of a hand stop then an actual vertical grip as we know that holding it normally is actually pretty unstable. Hand stops that are designed to be hand stops are completely legal on all lengths (or at least that's my understanding). So why run a VFG? Honestly if it's this confusing and convoluted to us (a bunch of gun people) how confused do you think the local police officer will be? Sure you will be right but you will likely still take the ride and have to sort it out later. All for an item that you probably don't use as intended anyway. To each their own but it doesn't make sense to me.

[kruzan]

I have been pondering this issue also, and while I agree with sig chaser on the VFG not necessarily being grabbed with fist on an AR upper, it seems nice and tempting because you can get all the fingers behind it using the BCM short angled vertical grip.



This .22lr Colt (9mm) upper I am building with Taccom bolt has the 9.5" Taccom barrel muzzle 1/2" inside the 9" UTG HG. So my question is on the overall length measurement as to why overall might not mean overall? (Maddmacs comp excluded in this case cause I want to remove it to put in a sonic cleaner.)

I am going with the newer sig brace pistol buffer tube from Mas Defense, so being 9" it looks like I might get or I can get it to right at 26" from the tube end to the end of the fore-end or HG. If I really want to do this without potential legal issues I believe it is only a $5 tax stamp however likely only if I make the 26" OVL design? This build has me thinking about boundary's in that using the longer pistol/firearm build, the VFG, the sig brace, and even the $400 Tac-Com trigger can make for interesting possibilities (not sure that trigger would work with a .22LR though). I will likely just go with the hand stop or nothing and not press my luck. This is the barrel length I went with though.

[702Warfighter]

The oal is from the back of the buffer tube to the threads of the barrel. Sorry if I misread or didn't understand your post. My 11.5 with a kak super sig buffer tube measures at 27 7/8 so I think I fall somewhere in line with the Franklin armory xo26.

[kruzan]

The oal is from the back of the buffer tube to the threads of the barrel. Sorry if I misread or didn't understand your post. My 11.5 with a kak super sig buffer tube measures at 27 7/8 so I think I fall somewhere in line with the Franklin armory xo26.

So the overall length is the underall length, makes sense. Need to find good keymod hand stop.

My appologies, it would'nt actually be 26" to the end of the HG anyway. 9" tube, plus 7.25" receiver, plus 9.25" rail = 25.5", minus 1/2" to barrel = 25"

[uffdaphil]

The oal is from the back of the buffer tube to the threads of the barrel. Sorry if I misread or didn't understand your post. My 11.5 with a kak super sig buffer tube measures at 27 7/8 so I think I fall somewhere in line with the Franklin armory xo26.

It's not "to the threads". It's to the far end of the barrel without the unpinned muzzle device.

[702Warfighter]

It's not "to the threads". It's to the far end of the barrel without the unpinned muzzle device.

Sorry that's what I meant. The top of the threads at the muzzle with with no muzzle device.

[JusticeM4]

This is all being over thought. Keys to understanding it all;

A. Sig brace irrelevent to any of it.
B. "Concealable"; for ATF means easily concealed on one's person, has nothing to do with CCP/CCW.
C. ATF definition of pistol (no length requirement); designed to be fired with one hand.
D. ATF definition of rifle; with stock, designed to be fired from the shoulder.
E. ATF definition of SBR; rifle with barrel <16".
F. ATF definition of AOW; neither pistol nor rifle, with an OAL <26".
G. ATF definition of firearm; neither a pistol nor rifle, with OAL ≥26".

So, add a VFG to a pistol with an OAL<26" and you have created an illegal AOW (no longer a pistol, now designed to be fired with two hands).

Add a VFG to a pistol with an OAL ≥26" and you have converted a pistol to a firearm (which is not an NFA item).

Thanks for summarizing all that.

Unfortunately some of these technicalities are confusing for many and not always cut and dry.