DBAL-PL

[caporider]

Ahhh... I see it now... Strange place to put your switches...

Agreed. It's almost like someone at LDI said "Bah! Who the hell would put this thing on a rifle?" and designed the switches accordingly.

Conversely, maybe it's an intentional design decision to force the use of I2s OR D2s on rifles. Who knows.

[JohnnyC]

The response I got when asked about putting it on a rifle is that they specifically designed it for pistol use at pistol engagement distances, and thus optimized the reflectors for short range, making it very poor for long range applications.

[Shao]

The response I got when asked about putting it on a rifle is that they specifically designed it for pistol use at pistol engagement distances, and thus optimized the reflectors for short range, making it very poor for long range applications.

Well, to get 500 lumens, they're more than likely using a Cree XM-L LED, which has a die size of 5 x 5mm. That means that the 500 lumens are going to be spread over that 5mm square surface. The older gen of Surefire weaponlights used the CREE XR-E, which has a die size of .9 or 1mm (depending on variant). That's why the new Surefire Ultra lights rated at 500 lumens don't throw as tight of a beam as their older models that use an XR-E LED. The XR-E may only be putting out 200 lumens, but that's concentrated onto a .9 or 1mm square surface. Regardless of what optic or reflector that you use, you're going to be giving up a lot of throw in exchange for excessive flood. In my opinion the XM-L LED (which is in just about every new LED light due to its superior luminous efficacy and allows manufacturers to claim such high output numbers) is not well suited for weapon lights.

It's like sticking a flood lamp on the end of your gun. You may be able to see everything around you, but you may not be able so see Charlie at 100m. Imagine trying to use a 100W light bulb to spot a target even 50m away. The XM-L LED I believe was originally intended for home and industrial, not portable lighting. For home defense distances the XM-L LED lights would be fine (except for the blinding yourself as you activate it part), but most would find it lacking utility in outdoor use. That's why the old technology Scout lights can reach out further than their newer XM-L "enhanced" Ultra brothers. If you do a "white wall" test with both, you'll notice that the beam of the XR-E will cut through the XM-L's beam at even 1/2 the rated lumens.

For a rifle, unless you plan on doing all of your shooting under 50 yds, I wouldn't use an XM-L equipped light. The XR-E is old tech though and in applications where a smaller die is required for throw, has for the most part been replaced with the (still smaller than XM-L) XP-G (1.4mm die size)and XP-E (same die size as XR-E, but with a lower die emittance, larger beam width, and higher efficiency) series of LEDs. I believe the Inforce WML uses an XP-G (with a die size of 1.4mm square). That's how it can appear so bright even though it's only rated at 120-200 lumens.

So, to sum it up: New "Ultra" weapon lights and those rated at 500+ lumens are 99.9% likely to be using an XM-L LED, which means a ton of output, but with very short throw. Older tech lights can actually reach out much further and are more practical on a rifle where engagement distances can exceed the ability of the XM-L LED to project useful light.

Sorry to go off on a such a long spiel, but when I read the line about optimizing the reflector for short distance I almost laughed myself out of my chair. It would take a special collimating lens setup to be able to get anywhere near the throw needed for an effective rifle light. I still have a seven year old Tiablo A9 that uses an XR-E with a collimating lens that can reach out to 5-600 yards easily. It still impresses people more than my 500-2500 lumen lights. The hotspot on a white wall looks like a portal to another dimension.

So choose your weapon light for your needs. If you're a door kicker, XM-L based lights will do you fine. If you need to be able to illuminate far off targets, you want something with a smaller die size.

SOURCE: Me. I used to make and mod LED handheld flashlights and weaponlights.

I've written too much. If anyone has any weapon light or LED questions, feel free to PM me and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

[JohnnyC]

Well, to get 500 lumens, they're more than likely using a Cree XM-L LED, which has a die size of 5 x 5mm. That means that the 500 lumens are going to be spread over that 5mm square surface. The older gen of Surefire weaponlights used the CREE XR-E, which has a die size of .9 or 1mm (depending on variant). That's why the new Surefire Ultra lights rated at 500 lumens don't throw as tight of a beam as their older models that use an XR-E LED. The XR-E may only be putting out 200 lumens, but that's concentrated onto a .9 or 1mm square surface. Regardless of what optic or reflector that you use, you're going to be giving up a lot of throw in exchange for excessive flood. In my opinion the XM-L LED (which is in just about every new LED light due to its superior luminous efficacy and allows manufacturers to claim such high output numbers) is not well suited for weapon lights.

It's like sticking a flood lamp on the end of your gun. You may be able to see everything around you, but you may not be able so see Charlie at 100m. Imagine trying to use a 100W light bulb to spot a target even 50m away. The XM-L LED I believe was originally intended for home and industrial, not portable lighting. For home defense distances the XM-L LED lights would be fine (except for the blinding yourself as you activate it part), but most would find it lacking utility in outdoor use. That's why the old technology Scout lights can reach out further than their newer XM-L "enhanced" Ultra brothers. If you do a "white wall" test with both, you'll notice that the beam of the XR-E will cut through the XM-L's beam at even 1/2 the rated lumens.

For a rifle, unless you plan on doing all of your shooting under 50 yds, I wouldn't use an XM-L equipped light. The XR-E is old tech though and in applications where a smaller die is required for throw, has for the most part been replaced with the (still smaller than XM-L) XP-G (1.4mm die size)and XP-E (same die size as XR-E, but with a lower die emittance, larger beam width, and higher efficiency) series of LEDs. I believe the Inforce WML uses an XP-G (with a die size of 1.4mm square). That's how it can appear so bright even though it's only rated at 120-200 lumens.

So, to sum it up: New "Ultra" weapon lights and those rated at 500+ lumens are 99.9% likely to be using an XM-L LED, which means a ton of output, but with very short throw. Older tech lights can actually reach out much further and are more practical on a rifle where engagement distances can exceed the ability of the XM-L LED to project useful light.

Sorry to go off on a such a long spiel, but when I read the line about optimizing the reflector for short distance I almost laughed myself out of my chair. It would take a special collimating lens setup to be able to get anywhere near the throw needed for an effective rifle light. I still have a seven year old Tiablo A9 that uses an XR-E with a collimating lens that can reach out to 5-600 yards easily. It still impresses people more than my 500-2500 lumen lights. The hotspot on a white wall looks like a portal to another dimension.

So choose your weapon light for your needs. If you're a door kicker, XM-L based lights will do you fine. If you need to be able to illuminate far off targets, you want something with a smaller die size.

SOURCE: Me. I used to make and mod LED handheld flashlights and weaponlights.

I've written too much. If anyone has any weapon light or LED questions, feel free to PM me and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

I thought it a shame of an excuse too. But that's the excuse they're giving.....

[dangrullon87]

Man what a bummer. I was so excited for this, watched for it like a hawk but not being able to toggle between light only / laser only is a deal breaker for me. Wonder why it was overlooked. Guess ill get the surefire.

[dangrullon87]

Man what a bummer. I was so excited for this, watched for it like a hawk but not being able to toggle between light only / laser only is a deal breaker for me. Wonder why it was overlooked. Guess ill get the surefire.

Just glanced at the official Steiner website and this caught my eye.

Q: In visible mode, can the operator select: laser only, light only, laser and light? Thanks.

A: SteinerCS ( a month ago)

Yes, you will be able to select the visible laser and the light function both independently from each other and simultaneously.

Color me re-interested.

http://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/dbal-pl

[JohnnyC]

Just glanced at the official Steiner website and this caught my eye.

Q: In visible mode, can the operator select: laser only, light only, laser and light? Thanks.

A: SteinerCS ( a month ago)

Yes, you will be able to select the visible laser and the light function both independently from each other and simultaneously.

Color me re-interested.

http://www.steiner-optics.com/laser-devices/dbal-pl

Doesn't matter if you can't activate with either button. If you're still forced to use white light with trigger finger for a righty, it's a waste of money.

[PGT]

Looks great....

wF5Yfbkl.jpg

[Benito]

Yeah, now that I think about it, putting the switches like that does make it virtually impossible to activate if mounted to a pic rail, and the fact that the switch on each side does a different thing is pretty odd.

On a related note, even if the light were designed well, a major hurdle for pistol lights is holster selection (same goes for new-to-the market pistols).
It's like a chick or the egg situation. Holster makers won't start making holsters for the light until it is popular enough to justify the cost/time, and popularity is limited by holster options. Heck, even the Surefire X300 Ultra took a while to get holsters specifically for it (unless it happened to fit in one made for the X300), and that is one of the most popular lights out there now.

[dangrullon87]

Anyone know of any reviews? Ive looked and nothing.. tumble weeds.