Nib vs Phosphate at 100x magnification

[atomic41]

I was reading the recent thread about problems with a Nib BCG and one post in that thread made me curious. Someone posted a comment about Nib being "more porous on a microscopic level". This made me curious so I decided to investigate.

This is a quick study of surface finish on Nib vs. black Phosphate. I took two of my BCGs and put them under a microscope and viewed them at 100x magnification at three different viewpoints. The Nib carrier is a newer Ares Armour and the BF carrier is a Daniel Defense with a lot more rounds on it's life. I looked at both of these near the back of the carrier where they see less wear. The carriers were degreased, dried, and looked at in the same place. Please note, this is not at all meant to be a comparison of brands. I'm using an older DD and a newer AA carier because this is what I have. If someone wants to send me brand new carriers and/or equally used carriers and multiple finishes to do a more comprehensive and accurate study them go ahead!

The following photos are taken from three different views. Stright on, then approx. 30 deg. angle, then on the edge of the milled groove at the back of the carrier. The angled view is to try to cast a shadow across the high spots with the microscope light to give a little better height perspective. The view from the edge of the milled groove is try to accomplish the same thing in a different way. Viewing the edge allows one to see high and low surfaces from a side profile and get a different perspective.(imagine looking over the edge of a cliff) I put some scaling on the images to help get a measure. The scale is in microns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_micrometre That is one millionth of a meter. Now...on with the pics!


Nib, straight view





BP, straight view





Nib, 30 deg. angle view





BP, 30 deg. angle view





Nib, edge of groove view





BP, edge of groove view






My conclusions:
The Nib finish appears to be a smoother and more consistent finish. There are fewer high and low variations in the Nib finish. It's interesting to see the milled groove edge on the BF carrier is not straight at all. I don't know if this is a plating uneveness, tooling marks from the mill, or something else. But in the different views it's easy to see that the Nib finish is much "tighter" and not as "porous". The scaling is a great way of measuring the high spots and confirms what the images show.

Based on what I see here, I can't see that Nib has large pores for carbon to cling to as I have read some claim, and actually the BP finish is the one with great big valleys. I think that a likely cause of many of the issues out there is due to poor plating practices. I would also like to do this again with a variety of carriers and finishes that are new. Unless someone wants to sponsor a study and send them to me to view then that won't happen. If anyone who has had issues with their finish wants to send it over I'll look at it if you pay shipping.

I hope this is interesting, fun, informative, or a little bit entertaining.

Cheers!

[ColtSeavers]

Thank you for taking the time and putting in the effort to check this out for yourself.

[atomic41]

Thank you for taking the time and putting in the effort to check this out for yourself.

No problem...I'm an engineer so I'm prone to be curious! My wife just gave me shit because I'm on the couch looking at gun parts under a microscope. I told her I was doing a study and apparently that's nerdy?

[Eurodriver]

No problem...I'm an engineer so I'm prone to be curious! My wife just gave me shit because I'm on the couch looking at gun parts under a microscope. I told her I was doing a study and apparently that's nerdy?

She just doesn't understand!!! Thanks for sharing. I don't have any new carriers but if I did I'd send you one.

[Iraqgunz]

So how would you explain NiB carriers that started out new and shiny that become black after several hundreds of rounds? My information comes from people in the industry who do coatings for a living on various material for various purposes (not just firearms).

[trackmagic]

Interesting pictures OP.

[Shiz]

I think the point was to tell us that lube doesn't stick to NiB as well, so go back to phosphate.

[foxtrotx1]

Until we see a Scanning Electron microscope image, I don't think we can draw conclusions.

[Shao]

I think the point was to tell us that lube doesn't stick to NiB as well, so go back to phosphate.

I run phosphate in most of my rifles, hard chrome in 2, Nib in 2, and NP3 on one. I like them all. Phosphate does hold lube better and I keep them in all of my SHTF guns, but if I do my job and lube regularly, my NP3 and NiB carriers are slicker than fresh snail trails. I love the feeling of pulling the CH back and letting it fly... So smooooooooth.... Anway OP: Thanks for those wicked pics!

[atomic41]

So how would you explain NiB carriers that started out new and shiny that become black after several hundreds of rounds? My information comes from people in the industry who do coatings for a living on various material for various purposes (not just firearms).

Great question and I have no idea. What do those industry people think it is? Poor plating process? Bad prep? I know that if I were those "industry" people, I would be sending lots of samples to a lab for analysis, working with different plating vendors, or get out of NiB BCG product line. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't which means there must be a right way and a wrong way of doing this plating process.

I'm not claiming anything or going into this with a bias and trying to prove a plating process is better than another. I'm simply curious since I read so many opinions on the subject and wanted to take a look for myself. I would enjoy doing a study that would find that answer but it would take outside resources since I'm not going to buy various BCGs and run thousands of rounds and track the wear on my dime. It would be fun to work on a study like that but I gots to pay the bills!

I can track the wear on mine and update this thread if it changes color or seems to hold carbon. These images are of a newer carrier and right now that surface is nice and tight. Maybe in time it will change? If I see changes, I'll be all over documenting it for no other reason than I enjoy this stuff. If someone wants to send me a problem child BCG to look at, I'll do it and document it.

Until we see a Scanning Electron microscope image, I don't think we can draw conclusions.

I have access to one but it might be tricky getting to use it. It stays very busy. I'll see what I can do. In the meantime, this 100x view is plenty to see the difference. Those valleys in the BP finish are huge holes and consider that this carrier has seen approx. 2000 rounds so there is likely a carbon buildup that is smoothing out the finish a little bit (or a lot?) right now. It might be more dramatic when brand new. (or not)