4-16 to much for a Recce/SPR

[steyrman13]

Im going to bring this back up here, for size, weight and magnification
Has anyone used the Burris Veracity 2-10x42FFP or the Burris XTR 2-10x42 FFP scopes? I would probably pass on the night force and find a FFP comparable scope.
XTRII 2-10x42 ffp
13.5 inches
22.7 oz

You could have a Leupold MK6 3-18x44 for that same size and weight actually 1.5" shorter and only .9oz heavier

[Eurodriver]

I ordered the SHV MIL MIL F1 yesterday. It's a week out. I too realized the they had mil mil which was my first reason I didn't want the scopes. I only saw MOA scopes in the stores. ( doesn't matter , I just know all my dope in mils) then I saw the UNCAPPED elevation and dig the capped Windage. It has the same MIL R turret which is my favorite on my NXS scopes.

I'm pretty excited about this offering.

Yeah that plain SHV model is a bust. I would never buy a scope for a target rifle that had caps on the elevation turret. It makes absolutely no sense. Also, like you, all my dopes are in MOA but it isn't that big of a deal with modern ballistic calcs and a few moments of time

I got very fortunate that the F1 came out the same week I was looking for an optic. Otherwise I might have just went with the Vortex 4-16 again. I wrote about my experience with the F1 in my 600 yard build thread in this sub forum. The pics are all gone but the gist of it is that the F1 (all F1s are uncapped by the way) kills all of the other mid-tier scopes in every single aspect.

ETA the Burris XTR II - I don't know why everyone has a hard on for that optic. Same price as the NF SHV F1 but the illumination on mine broke within ten seconds of using it and that 34mm tube is a beast for an AR.

[Eurodriver]

Not sure how anyone could say this is "too much scope" for an SPR...



This is the MOAR reticle at 14x. Target is at 500 yards and the orange circle is 3" wide.

[Pappabear]

Not sure how anyone could say this is "too much scope" for an SPR...



This is the MOAR reticle at 14x. Target is at 500 yards and the orange circle is 3" wide.

Did you get the Bobro mount, freakin sweet. Those mofos are hard to find in stock. What was the height of your mount. I bought a 1.375 I think. I hope my bell clears.

[krm375]

You could have a Leupold MK6 3-18x44 for that same size and weight actually 1.5" shorter and only .9oz heavier

That would be my choice, if I did not already have the 3-24 March ffp on mine. I was adding those from Burris to show size and weight, I am not sure what the reason is but so many people still choose the NF 2.5-10 x24,32,42 when other options are available in the FFP.

[Eurodriver]

I checked my previous orders and this is the exact Bobro I have. Never measured it so I'm unsure of the actual height. The website says its 1.5" but if you did get one that is 1.375" you'll still have plenty of room even with a flip open lens cover as you can see in the pics. Honestly, I wish the scope was higher because the Magpul stock's cheek riser is useless as I can't get a good sight picture unless its completely bottomed out.

http://www.primaryarms.com/b10-300-300/p/b10-300-300/

[Pappabear]

I checked my previous orders and this is the exact Bobro I have. Never measured it so I'm unsure of the actual height. The website says its 1.5" but if you did get one that is 1.375" you'll still have plenty of room even with a flip open lens cover as you can see in the pics. Honestly, I wish the scope was higher because the Magpul stock's cheek riser is useless as I can't get a good sight picture unless its completely bottomed out.

http://www.primaryarms.com/b10-300-300/p/b10-300-300/

I had a build just like yours. And even though your not pushing that riser, the stock is doing its job by putting you dead on the optic. And super stable. It does give lift even at bottom level. Great stocks.

[BlackWatch16]

There is a disadvantage to too much magnification though. Too much mag will magnify every breath, twitch and wobble of the shooter. The rule of thumb taught to me and that I find works very well is approximately 2xthe magnification for the distance you are shooting at. That dovetails with the NF 2.5-10 for an SPR and the S&B 5-25 for .308; .300 win mag and higher.

If you need to observe, that's what high mag spotters are for.

Problem is that rule of thumb isn't based on quantitative data collected in a scientific manner. It is merely regurgitated instructional talking points passed down from one generation of snipers to another. By that logic 5-25 is "too much" for a 308, although I would disagree. There is certainly a difference in desired power for a 308 pushing 175gr at 2650fps and a 300WM pushing 190gr at almost 3000fps. Load up some 230gr Berger hybrids and you're almost at 338 capability. More power is always better, provided you do not violate the rules of weight, balance, and enough FOV on the low end. Plus on a true modern SPR a backup sighting system for 100m and in is a must. Regarding the concept of max effective range, let's not forget that the standard for the M16 and M4 (with iron sights) is 550m and 500m respectively. Trained shooters should be able to provide combat effective fire at that distance, and there are still plenty of great shooters who can put accurate rounds on target consistently. Thus, the SPR concept starts at a range of 600m, and 800m is realistic given the right conditions and the right shooter.
I refer back to the greatest modern day fail regarding poor optic/rifle combination...the original SASS with only 10x...we got it WRONG. Thankfully the CSASS program fixed it, and it wasn't done just by asking guys what they thought...it was confirmed through a scientific user eval with data collection.

[USMC_Anglico]

Problem is that rule of thumb isn't based on quantitative data collected in a scientific manner. It is merely regurgitated instructional talking points passed down from one generation of snipers to another. By that logic 5-25 is "too much" for a 308, although I would disagree. There is certainly a difference in desired power for a 308 pushing 175gr at 2650fps and a 300WM pushing 190gr at almost 3000fps. Load up some 230gr Berger hybrids and you're almost at 338 capability. More power is always better, provided you do not violate the rules of weight, balance, and enough FOV on the low end. Plus on a true modern SPR a backup sighting system for 100m and in is a must. Regarding the concept of max effective range, let's not forget that the standard for the M16 and M4 (with iron sights) is 550m and 500m respectively. Trained shooters should be able to provide combat effective fire at that distance, and there are still plenty of great shooters who can put accurate rounds on target consistently. Thus, the SPR concept starts at a range of 600m, and 800m is realistic given the right conditions and the right shooter.
I refer back to the greatest modern day fail regarding poor optic/rifle combination...the original SASS with only 10x...we got it WRONG. Thankfully the CSASS program fixed it, and it wasn't done just by asking guys what they thought...it was confirmed through a scientific user eval with data collection.

And I will offer from personal observation that a 5.56 platform offhand with higher magnification is a hassle to shoot. Notice I said offhand, if all you do is bench resting then OK, put as much mag as you can afford on it. Once you actually have to pick it up, patrol with it and then start engaging targets at range under less than ideal conditions, too much mag becomes a hindrance. As always YMMV. Bigger calibers sure go bigger as you need that for range, my personal .308 runs a HDMR and I'll usually be up around 15x-16x at max range which so far is 760yds. I've only spun it up higher at range to observe at times.

[Spin Drift]

On my LPR, the NF 2.5-10X works well, but I'm thinking center of mass shots, on torso sized targets, out to 500.

I just don't shoot too much long range target/paper with .223.

Also, I considered weight, in addition to size (footprint).

The S&B 5-25X Ultra Short is a super scope, but the smaller windage/elevation knobs are pretty small if you plan on doing a lot of dialing.

Where it really shines is behind a NVD clip-on.