Wrong serial # on a form 1

[BT556]

Well, I submitted mine with the SBR prefix and it is still pending. Hopefully it doesn't cause an issue for me.

Hopefully they have the issue resolved by know and yours will go through smoothly

[BigWaylon]

Mine was submitted 8/29/13 and approved 5/9/14 (paper form). Pic back on page 2.

Gotta be an issue with particular examiner or research assistant working on EForms.

[BigWaylon]

I got mine back Sunday night as well, I remembered I still had the box the lower came the other day and it has the S/N on it as SBRxxxxx. John from spikes told me on the phone that he was going to send a letter to the ATF about the SBR s/n

I remembered this thread after I saw another guy on ARFCOM run into an issue with their Spike's SBR serial number.

I sent the following email to Gary Schaible, Ted Clutter and Kimberly Ramsburg:

-----Original Message-----
From: Me
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 9:36 AM
To: Schaible, Gary N.; Ramsburg, Kimberly; Clutter, Ted
Subject: Spike's Tactical AR lowers

I need to make you aware of an issue with some Form 1 applications using a certain variation of AR lower made by Spike's Tactical. It's causing confusion among applicants and examiners, and I can give one example of a form being approved with a serial number that doesn't actually exist, which could be a big problem for the person that makes that firearm.

First, a little history. In the not too distant past, Spike's was going to build complete SBRs. They decided to use the prefix of SBR on the lower, just because they can. The market wanted more lowers than they did complete SBRs, so Spikes started selling those same lowers individually. The SBR ended up standing for Spike's Battle Rifle, not Short Barreled Rifle.

The problem is people are submitting forms (they've all been EForms that I've been made aware of), and the research assistants or examiners are not acting consistently. Several have been disapproved because the person put SBR-12345 in the serial number field. They're being told that SBR isn't part of the SN, although it absolutely is. In one case, John from Spike's even called the examiner on behalf of the applicant to straighten out the situation. However, in another situation the person was approved using the numerical portion only. (This is the instance where I believe the person has an unregistered SBR, since the form doesn't match the firearm).

Somehow the employees at the NFA Branch need to be informed of this situation. The correct format of the serial number is SBR-#####. Nobody would've batted an eye if they had been SAR-##### or SCR-#####...but just because they started with SBR it's caused the confusion.

Now, for the other side of the discussion, I absolutely understand why the examiners and research assistants are doing this. Spikes puts CAL before the caliber and MOD before the model, so they're assuming SBR is simply a title for that row...but it's not. Spikes had everything except the numerical portion of the SN engraved one way, and then those digits added in a different font, so that adds to the confusion. (Again, if it had been SAR or SCR, nobody would've batted an eye).

I'll attach a pic of my lower so you can see an example.

Hopefully this is an issue that can get straightened out so that properly registered firearms are being made.

Thanks for your time. If you need me to clarify any of that, let me know.

-Greg

In addition to the pic of my lower, I had a link to this thread, and two on ARFCOM. One of those two threads included a member getting approved with just the numerical portion...which I think potentially puts them in possession of an unregistered firearm since the paperwork technically doesn't match the engraving.

I got a reply from Gary yesterday:

Mr BigWaylon - thank you for the information - I forwarded to the NFA Branch Chief, in addition to your distribution

And them one from Ted this morning:

Good Morning -

Thank you for the information, will review our process to ensure quality consistent...


Not sure if John actually sent his letter, but hopefully this is a non-issue for everybody else.

[HKGuns]

Mine was approved with the SBR- prefix, without issue, on December 8th.

[BigWaylon]

Mine was approved with the SBR- prefix, without issue, on December 8th.

Glad to hear it. One of the examples I sent was a 11/7 submission that was disapproved on 12/17 for including SBR. Definitely not consistent among examiners.

[BT556]

Thanks for sending this, I just started a New SBR build and with another Spikes SBR lower, I will keep this thread updated to what happens.

[BigWaylon]

Just to add one more thing. John D from Spikes replied back (I forwarded him my email as an FYI). He said the info I got about then being used for SBRs was incorrect. Doesn't impact the situation, as SBR is part of the prefix...just part of the backstory was incorrect.

[ezveedub]

AFAIK, the ATF is incorrect, as I know of one submitted with SBR prefix before the number and it was approved. The one thing I do when submitting a form 1 is to add a picture of the engraved info on the receiver, that way they can actually see what's submitted on the form 1 matches the registered receiver to avoid issues.

[BT556]

AFAIK, the ATF is incorrect, as I know of one submitted with SBR prefix before the number and it was approved. The one thing I do when submitting a form 1 is to add a picture of the engraved info on the receiver, that way they can actually see what's submitted on the form 1 matches the registered receiver to avoid issues.

That doesn't help before they disapproved mine they asked me to send them a picture, I thought about sending a picture of the box my receiver came in as it has the serial number on it but it was already all straightened out

[BigWaylon]

AFAIK, the ATF is incorrect, as I know of one submitted with SBR prefix before the number and it was approved. The one thing I do when submitting a form 1 is to add a picture of the engraved info on the receiver, that way they can actually see what's submitted on the form 1 matches the registered receiver to avoid issues.

ATF is definitely incorrect when it says the SBR is not part of the serial number. We all understand that.

The issue is they've Approved and Disapproved forms both way. There are stamped F1s out there with and without SBR, as well as forms that were Disapproved.

Although they are wrong, I can see their side because of the way all the engraving appears. If it been SAR, SCR, or SBP...never would've been questioned.