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Senior Member
My, attorney prepared, NFA trust has two witness signatures on the page where the trustee and co-trustee signatures are notarized. There are no witness signatures associated with any of the successor trustees only Notarized signatures required.
As stated below, this will vary from State to State.
Last edited by HKGuns; 11-14-14 at 14:35.
Banned
Ding ding ding we have a winner. The consequence of getting it wrong is go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200. It's worth paying a lawyer a few hundred to get it right.Originally Posted by skydivr
Senior Member
"How many signatures required on trust?"
It depends on state law.
VA required the Grantor only (notarized).
FL required the Grantor and two witnesses (all notarized).
Member
Here is my thing about attorneys FWIW: I know several, and have dealt with a lot more. I'm a cop and have dealt with prosecutors, defense, as well as civil attorneys. Nothing wrong with any of them, I don't have an anti-attorney bias. But the fact of the matter is they are only people. When they graduate from law school, or pass the BAR exam, they are not given the keys to the kingdom, they are not issued any set of books or anything with any secret knowledge that is unavailable to regular people.
To say that only an attorney can do a trust, or they can only do it right, is exactly the same as saying 'only cops should have guns'. (insert "I am the only one here professional enough....." video clip here)
Not bragging, but I've met a lot of attorneys who are not as smart as me.
What an attorney is needed for is to make all the trips to the courthouse, to represent you when you aren't there, and to prepare the paperwork that you either don't have time, or ability to prepare. That doesn't mean that the rest of us don't have the ability.
Off the soap box
I went to the Texas statues to look. I see no requirement for having witness signatures. In fact, according to my research, in Texas a Trust doesn't even have to be in writing. But since we are dealing with the BATFIEO, I wonder if there is any requirement from them.
Banned
I'm not implying that attorneys are the only people that can do it. My point is that someone with the relevent educational background and experience has a higher probability of getting it right than someone just doing it one time based on what they're reading in a book.
Relating the "only one's" argument to my profession of aero engineer, you can go to your local public library and find all the information you need to design and build an airplane from the ground up and it's possible for anyone willing to put the time and effort into it to build an airplane that will safely take you aloft. That being said, the probability of ending up in a smoking crater is a lot higher with "joe sixpack" and his library airplane than if you get guys like me with some education and experience to do it.
Member
I didn't have an attorney do it because he's smarter than me. I had an attorney do it because he's a hell of lot more experienced than me. He's spent over a decade writing and litigating trusts, and he has legal responsibility to represent me competently.
The thing is, everyone has a different risk tolerance. I'll write my own contracts when there's a few thousand bucks on the line, but when I'm dealing with the government, and especially the ATF, its worth the $200 to me to mitigate the risk that I screw something up. If you are confident enough in your abilities that it's not a risk to you, that's awesome, and most likely you won't ever have any problems.
Member
I did not mean to insult anyone, attorneys or anyone who used an attorney to do a trust. I simply dislike hearing that it is the only way to do it correctly.
Member
I'm from Texas and also have two witnesses for the signatures. The way that my attorney wrote the signature page might help make your problem a lot more convenient. Each signature has an associated notary spot and witness spot so that once I signed my spot and had it notarized, I passed it on to the next trustee and they could go at their convenance(without me) to sign their part and have it notarized. Then pass it on to the next trustee.
Member
STOP, HIRE an ATTORNEY
Oh wait, sounds like you are smarter than all of them, yet stupid enough to use a boilerplate trust without making the necessary adjustments to ensure proper satisfaction of the Texas code, most of which cannot be gleaned by a cursory reading of the statute. Additionally, you are asking EXTREMELY basic questions which means you definitely do not understand what needs to be done to boilerplate trust to actually make it workable, valid, and enforceable. And I'm absolutely positive you understand how to adjust the trust depending on the circumstances surrounding your potential beneficiaries as well. I have spent so much time undoing the damage that people, JUST LIKE YOU, have done just because they think they are so damn smart. You are dealing with things that can cost you thousands of dollars and possible federal prison time, not just for you, but for any of your beneficiaries as well. But its ok, you would rather be arrogant than talk to someone who understands probate law, does it for a living, and probably only charges $300-500 to ensure your property that will be worth well over $1000 is properly taken care of.
Member
yes it does
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