Is Surefire the only game in town for IR + White light output?

[jpmuscle]

Outside of hand help applications, and given new market offerings that integrate both IR illumination and IR/Vis lasers ( the new Dbal-A3 as an example) are the surefire dual spectrum offerings still realistically neccesary?

[Defaultmp3]

Outside of hand help applications, and given new market offerings that integrate both IR illumination and IR/Vis lasers ( the new Dbal-A3 as an example) are the surefire dual spectrum offerings still realistically neccesary?

Helmet-borne applications? But no, I'm with you, hence why I asked Benito his application for this. Hell, with the RAPTAR Lite, you get everything in one package: 300 lumen white light, IR laser pointer, IR laser illuminator, visible red laser. And the DBAL-A3 certainly greatly simplifies switchology with their visible override port.

[Benito]

Well, their mini-X300 is still vaporware after all these years, and the X400 with the green laser took, like, two years from "imminent release" to reaching my hands. So, yeah, a lot of their products take awhile to come to market... if at all. Excellent stuff, but I do hate the whole teasing thing (announce what you're working on if you must, but don't give a release date and push it back constantly). Beyond that, I'm curious, what function are you planning on using the dual spectrum lights for?

Helmet-borne applications? But no, I'm with you, hence why I asked Benito his application for this. Hell, with the RAPTAR Lite, you get everything in one package: 300 lumen white light, IR laser pointer, IR laser illuminator, visible red laser. And the DBAL-A3 certainly greatly simplifies switchology with their visible override port.

I'm still fleshing out my exact plans here, to be honest. My idea was to have a helmet-mounted NVG (probably a PVS-14 of one sort or another), for which I would obviously like to have the IR illuminator for seeing at range and in very dark environments and the IR laser for easier aiming with the helmet get-up making for less-than-perfect cheek weld. The visible laser is not a big deal for my uses, but if it comes as part of the package, then why not. As for the visible light, while that needs no explanation, it doesn't really matter to me if it comes as part of the whole package or separate, but having them all together seems like it would keep the weight and bulk down.

As for the RAPTAR Lite and DBAL-A3, I will have to research more into those. To me they just seem bulkier and heavier that the X400V (with its way off boreline laser), and even more so than this mythical XVL2 (which seems like it would be a winner for both Surefire and customers).

[Defaultmp3]

I'm still fleshing out my exact plans here, to be honest. My idea was to have a helmet-mounted NVG (probably a PVS-14 of one sort or another), for which I would obviously like to have the IR illuminator for seeing at range and in very dark environments and the IR laser for easier aiming with the helmet get-up making for less-than-perfect cheek weld. The visible laser is not a big deal for my uses, but if it comes as part of the package, then why not. As for the visible light, while that needs no explanation, it doesn't really matter to me if it comes as part of the whole package or separate, but having them all together seems like it would keep the weight and bulk down.

As for the RAPTAR Lite and DBAL-A3, I will have to research more into those. To me they just seem bulkier and heavier that the X400V (with its way off boreline laser), and even more so than this mythical XVL2 (which seems like it would be a winner for both Surefire and customers).

Well, if you don't care about the visible laser, yet another option is to run a standard white light and the new DBAL-I² that has an IR laser pointer and IR laser illuminator instead of the old IR/visible laser combo. Would certainly make the switchology easier. Gives you a brighter white light than what the X400V IRc offers (even if you run just a mini-Scout), doesn't have a visible IR illuminator signature (the importance of which will vary on what you're using it for), and has a much closer alignment with the bore, but does has the additional bulk as you noted.

[Seifer]

DBAL-I²
<4mW (High), <2mW (Low)

Surefire M300V
110.0 mW

[jpmuscle]

Helmet-borne applications? But no, I'm with you, hence why I asked Benito his application for this. Hell, with the RAPTAR Lite, you get everything in one package: 300 lumen white light, IR laser pointer, IR laser illuminator, visible red laser. And the DBAL-A3 certainly greatly simplifies switchology with their visible override port.

Those seem like the best going options currently. I still for the life of me though do not understand why more functional units from a ergonomics standpoint haven't come about. Everything is a compromise but I don't see why they can't be minimized just the same lol.

I'll concede I have minimal experience with this stuff but looking at some off the offerings I can't help think things could be done better. I'm on the fence about ordering one of the new Dbal-A3s as I like the functionality but I personally want something I can run with less tape switches, not more.


ETA: is there anything out on the interwebs comparing IR illuminator output of integrated systems and the surefire dual spectrum stuff? I've found zip. I'd like to see some actual photos or video.

[Benito]

DBAL-I²
<4mW (High), <2mW (Low)

Surefire M300V
110.0 mW

Holy smokes, if those numbers are right, that does seem like a massive disparity between outputs. Given the price of that DBAL, I would tjhink the IR illuminator would be closer to the Surefire's.

[Defaultmp3]

Holy smokes, if those numbers are right, that does seem like a massive disparity between outputs. Given the price of that DBAL, I would tjhink the IR illuminator would be closer to the Surefire's.

The DBAL-I² uses a laser illuminator; the M300V uses an LED one. Hence the massive disparity. Note that the ATPIAL-C has a 3 mW power, and with a fixed flood, and TNVC states it's good out to about 150 yards. The DBAL-I² has an adjustable flood is has potentially up to a ~33% increase in power over the ATPIAL-C, so it'd say it's probably quite usable for typical IR illumination needs. It's probably worth asking the guys at TNVC what they think.

[Sensei]

I'm still fleshing out my exact plans here, to be honest. My idea was to have a helmet-mounted NVG (probably a PVS-14 of one sort or another), for which I would obviously like to have the IR illuminator for seeing at range and in very dark environments and the IR laser for easier aiming with the helmet get-up making for less-than-perfect cheek weld. The visible laser is not a big deal for my uses, but if it comes as part of the package, then why not. As for the visible light, while that needs no explanation, it doesn't really matter to me if it comes as part of the whole package or separate, but having them all together seems like it would keep the weight and bulk down.

As for the RAPTAR Lite and DBAL-A3, I will have to research more into those. To me they just seem bulkier and heavier that the X400V (with its way off boreline laser), and even more so than this mythical XVL2 (which seems like it would be a winner for both Surefire and customers).

I'm in the same boat and was heavily leaning toward the RAPTAR Lite. However, a couple of things have given me pause. First, the controls are less than intuative. Second and most importantly, the mounting screw is reported to be 1/4 20 which does not fit any rail that most of us own. Wilcox's answer is to use risers which screw up the low profile and sight picture. This last point seems crazy...

EDIT: Grant from G&R tells me that this mounting system for the RAPTAR works for TRUE Picatinny rails.

[Benito]

The DBAL-I² uses a laser illuminator; the M300V uses an LED one. Hence the massive disparity. Note that the ATPIAL-C has a 3 mW power, and with a fixed flood, and TNVC states it's good out to about 150 yards. The DBAL-I² has an adjustable flood is has potentially up to a ~33% increase in power over the ATPIAL-C, so it'd say it's probably quite usable for typical IR illumination needs. It's probably worth asking the guys at TNVC what they think.

Ah, ok that makes sense. When I see illuminator, I think light, especially when they don't specify it as a laser illuminator.

I'm in the same boat and was heavily leaning toward the RAPTAR Lite. However, a couple of things have given me pause. First, the controls are less than intuative. Second and most importantly, the mounting screw is reported to be 1/4 20 which does not fit any rail that most of us own. Wilcox's answer is to use risers which screw up the low profile and sight picture. This last point seems crazy...

That does seem pretty crazy. I recently put some Magpul MBUS Pro Offset sights on my AR (great sights, by the way). This probably further complicates my situation as far as IR light/laser combos go.