Handgun Sight Picture - Front Sight Focus is wrong??

[llO0DQLE]

I will only briefly discuss it, then I will link an article on it.





http://pistol-training.com/articles/vision

Okay, I read the article.. but it seems to me he's talking about front sight focus. He is essentially talking about focusing your convergence at the target but that when he brings the pistol up, he shifts his focus?/accommodation to the front sight.. while still maintaining convergence on the target? What the article talks about doesn't seem to be the same as what Frank Proctor is teaching in the video...

[Surf]

Me too.

Surf or WAYOFTHEGUN, so would this method be almost like the evolution of point shooting and/or indexing? When I was active duty, I had heard both of those terms tossed around a lot by the other instructors (Surf, part of that military training cadre misinformation thing from the other thread). Point shooting, as I understood it, sort of left the curriculum when we (Marines) started using ACOGs. From there, it became indexing, i.e. pointing to the target, and developing muscle memory with your presentation. Does this method build on those practices, does it kind of morph them into one a single method, or is it something totally different?

And, yes I was speaking of carbines there, but I adapted and carried the basic principles to my pistol shooting. But my handgun experience is SIGNIFICANTLY less than rifle/carbine, so I want to make sure I'm shooting with bad practices.

I will try to hit this one quickly as I am leaving for SHOT show tomorrow and may not be able to respond.

I have mentioned in the past that I very much differentiate between the classic "point shooting" method and more modern body alignment, indexing, kinesthetics or the current verbiage being tossed around now. Quickly point shooting as it was first coined was a pure alignment of the weapon without visual reference on the weapon, be it slide, sights whatever. It was a pure pointing of the weapon relying on body mechanics. As for kinesthetic type of shooting (indexing as you reference), while body mechanics play a role, the technique is generally aided by some type of visual reference or visual orientation of the weapon in relation to the target. Of course we still have up close (contact distance) retention shooting where we may not have a visual reference, but that is not exactly what we are talking about here. All too often the phrase "point shooting" gets adapted to any type of shooting where we don't have a nice sight alignment and sight picture and this is not the original definition. This is why you have others coming up with different definitions as indeed they are not the same.

OK, I feel the above is important to understand, but back to the question. Yes we should be working at developing a "body mechanic" that is quick, efficient and repeatable and which we can learn via correct repetition to perform at the "subconscious" level. Just like developing a golf swing, or swinging a bat, etc. Our body ingrains the mechanic which becomes very natural, very accurate and highly repeatable. This allows the shooter to do a quick visual confirmation of the weapon, "see what you need to see, to get the hit you need to get". This might mean a general reference of the entire weapon, a slide orientation, flash front sight, soft focus through the sights or a hard, crisp front sight focus. Just depends on what we need to see and shooter skill, but we let the trained subconscious body mechanic get us pretty damn near close to where we need to be. Again some might call this point shooting, but technically it is not. Point shooting is also not often taken as a good phrase when it comes to legal proceedings.

Think of it this way, since we were kids, we developed the ability to quickly point at an object, near or far, with high degrees of accuracy, pretty much dead on. We can learn to do that with a weapon also, with correct mechanics. By functioning at this subconscious level the weapon ends up almost "spot on" where it needs to be with a proper alignment in relation to the target. Not thinking (conscious mind) about that phase of the presentation allows the individual to consciously keep processing other information as it unfolds. Might sound minor, but when you accomplish this skill well, when it is time to take the shot, the weapon is already aligned, pretty much dead on and with good sighting techniques discussed prior in this thread (looking through the sights), it can lead to incredible speed to first shot, with high degrees of accuracy. This also works transitionally with multiple targets, going target to target and shifting visual focus (accommodation) and not the point is space where our eyes meet (convergence).

Hope this makes sense.

[echo5whiskey]

All too often the phrase "point shooting" gets adapted to any type of shooting where we don't have a nice sight alignment and sight picture and this is not the original definition. This is why you have others coming up with different definitions as indeed they are not the same.

That is what I was originally taught.

Hope this makes sense

It does now. Thank you for clarifying. Have fun in Vegas!!!

[Trajan]

THANK YOU Frank and Surf. I've been doing this for a long time an never heard anyone explain it, and I lacked the ability to explain it myself.

[Shadow1198]

I recently wrote a fairly lengthy and detailed post on my site about this very same subject. Hope no one minds me linking it: http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/t...acy-speed.html

This might not even be the best or most accurate representation (at least of what I myself see when using a "soft focus"), since a target isn't included, but this might help things click a bit for some:



In essence, you are simply looking through the sights without necessarily placing any significant focus on them. At least that is one way of doing it, or at least the way I often use a soft focus. Another analogy I think is relevant, is how you'd shoot a carbine with a RDS. Basically look at what you want to shoot and put the dot on it without necessarily focusing on the dot. Same concept. When doing this, I've sometimes found myself focused on the target, while still maintaining good accuracy. Other times, it almost feels like I'm not actually focused on the target or the sights, but almost as if I'm focused in between. This latter version I've experienced may be something similar to Gabe's description of "accommodation" in the Pistol-Training link.

I'll often find myself using a soft focus that looks a bit like this, as far as about 15yds, if we're talking relatively safe shot groups within an A/B zone of an IPSC/IDPA target. Beyond that, for my current skill level, I find that I end up shifting back to more of a front sight focus. Even if it is close range, if it's extreme accuracy, like placing a round in the "credit card" at speed, I will tend to shift back to a front sight focus most of the time as well. I am not a noteworthy shooter by any means, just highly analytical and have studied these things in great detail.

In all of my research, I remember coming across several well known and successful competition pistol shooters that I believe had all mentioned using or at least experimenting with a soft focus out to as far as 40-50yds, if not farther. I wish I could remember exactly who, but I'm thinking it was Brians Enos, Leatham, Matt Burkett, or maybe one of a few others. From what I've found personally, I think the major factors in determining what you can get away with is ultimately your level of mastery with EACH of the fundamentals. If, for example, a shooter has excellent mastery of their grip, upper body stance, extension of the gun, trigger control, and more importantly if they have a very high degree of consistency with those fundamentals, then it stands to reason that they are going to be able to get away with a lot more than a shooter that maybe has less consistent trigger control, inconsistent extension of the gun to target, etc. It's my educated guess that, with that high degree of consistency, an experienced shooter can get away with "seeing less of what everyone else needs to see", while still feeling themselves exercising their fundamentals correctly, and seeing just enough out of the sights to know that they're doing what they need to do to break the shot. In essence, "feeling what they need to feel". That last part is just a guess on my part, but I would tend to think from my limited experience that feel is a very important factor to highly experienced shooters, especially when shooting at the limit and effectively self-diagnosing and calling shots on the fly.

The other thing I think it's important to discuss, and I think Frank was hinting at this, is basically focal shift and the complexity it can add to the equation. With a traditional hard front sight focus, shooting with proper followthrough is in effect:

-Focus on your intended POA on target
-Draw the gun and bring the sights to that intended POA
-Shift focus to the front sight
-Break the shot when you see what you need to see with your sights
-Focus immediately shifts to POA on next target
-Bring the gun/sights to the next POA
-Shift focus to the front sight
-Wash, rinse, repeat

Kind of a lot going on there. At this point, we're basically negotiating over steps that add fractions of a second, but they can add up in the long run, and more importantly they can add a lot of mental and visual stress as well as confusion to the equation. With a soft focus and within a distance and target size that you feel comfortable at for your current skill level, you can potentially eliminate several of those steps of focal shift. In some cases you can simply look at your POA, "see what you need to see" with the blurry soft focus sight picture, shoot, and just keep looking at what you want to shoot and/or also being aware of the bouncing, blurry sight package if firing multiple shots. Ultimately, one of the major components of shooting faster is learning to "see faster". Being able to eliminate some of the time consuming and mentally stressful steps in the process of seeing and focusing can go a long ways towards helping a shooter achieve a higher level of performance.