Question on measurement of an AR pistol OAL

[MarkB1]

I have been told and read that the measurement of a pistol's OAL is from the end of the buffer tube to the end of the muzzle without any removable muzzle device. I've also read that extending a brace off the end of the buffer tube to increase the OAL does not increase the legal OAL as the measurement is to the end of the buffer tube and not to the end of the attachment on the buffer tube

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...OL#post1925183
Post #114

Now confusion enters thanks to the BATF.

Thordsen Customs has received a letter from the BATF dated Dec. 18, 2014, that seems to change this.

http://siterepository.s3.amazonaws.c...istol_pack.pdf

Thordsen Customs posted a summary of the letter and stated:
______________________________________________

NEW ATF OPINION LETTER

Back in October, we sent a letter to BATFE Firearms Technology Industry Services Branch (FTISB) requesting clarification and opinions on several topics related to our newest AR pistol buffer tube/saddle kit designs. We received their response on December 23rd and have spent the last few days going over it. The reply was not in the usual Q and A format, so we’ve decided to release both our letter and their response to make it easier to understand the framing of their answers. See below.


Here are the highlights.
1.Our buffer tube cover/ saddle combinations ARE NOT a “firearm” and DO NOT reclassify an AR pistol to SBR, provided that it is used as designed (a cheek rest) and not shouldered. (page 2 paragraphs 1-2 and page 3 paragraph 1).
2.Use of a longer extension tube or spacers that cause a “pistol” to achieve an overall length greater than 26” could reclassify it as a “firearm” (page 3, paragraph 2).
3.The use of an AR type extension tube, or similar component, which allows for the installation of a saddle/cheek enhancement on a platform other than an AR pistol (example, an AK pistol), IS PERMISSIBLE provided that it is used as designed (a cheek rest) and not shouldered. (page 3, paragraph 3-4).

The language regarding shouldering was not unexpected given that BATFE has recently reversed their position on other AR/AK pistol related accessories. Regardless of BATFEs reversal of opinion, we believe that our pistol builder’s packs are still the best option for safety, control, utility, and aesthetic cheek rest for pistol variants. We will continue to work on the anticipated release of our updated pistol builders packs.
________________________________________________



I've highlighted in bold the line in question. It seems to imply that the OAL can be changed by using spacers. I believe that the spacers would be used on the buffer tube cover and the spacers would move the buffer tube cover to the rear increasing the OAL. This seems to contradict the earlier opinions on how to measure the OAL.

Which method is correct?

[Renegade04]

The "spacers" to which they are referring would be added to the buffer tube/receiver extension somehow in order to increase the buffer's length, therefore increasing the OAL of the weapon itself (I have never seen anyone use a spacer of any type to extend the length of a buffer tube). If the OAL was changed to a length greater than 26", it would change the weapon from being classified as a "pistol" to a "firearm". Regardless of where you mounted the Thordsen cover kit, it would not change the OAL of the weapon. Some companies have come out with extended pistol buffer tubes (KAK and Midwest Industries to name two). These were made to allow the guys using the SIG Brace to have the brace sit further back. Also, paired with the right barrel length, it also increased the OAL to greater than 26", thereby creating a "firearm". This also allowed one to add a VFG. The Thordsen CAA Saddle adapter kit and the CAA Saddle are nice products and they can be mounted to a mil-spec or commercial carbine buffer tube. They can even be used with some pistol buffer tubes as long as they are in the diameter range for fitment. If you are intending on wanting to have an AR pistol without any legal issues, I recommend using a carbine buffer tube (as is) and the Thordsen CAA Saddle adapter kit and the CAA Saddle.

[MarkB1]

Thanks. I was a little confused by the "adding spacers" statement as I can't recall any use on a buffer tube. I know the spacers are used on the brace and other tube covers.

[DWood]

There are no federal restrictions on the length of a pistol barrel. A pistol > 26" OAL is still a pistol. If you add a VFG, it becomes a firearm. Remove the VFG and it is a pistol again.

If a pistol is < 26" OAL it is still a pistol. If you add a VFG, it becomes an AOW.

[MarkB1]

There are no federal restrictions on the length of a pistol barrel. A pistol > 26" OAL is still a pistol. If you add a VFG, it becomes a firearm. Remove the VFG and it is a pistol again.

If a pistol is < 26" OAL it is still a pistol. If you add a VFG, it becomes an AOW.

Thanks. I understand this but it sounded as if using spacers on a Thordsen buffer tube cover to increase the OAL actually increased the legal OAL when it really doesn't. I don't plan on using a VFG but my pistol has an OAL of 25 7/8" measured from the buffer tube. Adding a Thordsen buffer tube cover extends the actual OAL over 26" but the legal OAL remains under 26" and becomes a NFA weapon with a VFG. That is why I questioned the BATF response. Do I think 1/8" will get me in trouble? Probably not, but someone with a bad day could cause problems because, legally, it is too short for a VFG. More BATF fun and games.

[zombiescometh]

Don't forget to look at your state laws regarding how oal of pistols are measured. For instance Michigan has no definition. Some courts/judges/police follow the federal guidelines and some just go by the oal of your pistol.

[DWood]

Thanks. I understand this but it sounded as if using spacers on a Thordsen buffer tube cover to increase the OAL actually increased the legal OAL when it really doesn't. .........

I agree that they just added more confusion with that wording. But then, that seems to be all the ATF does lately.