NJ Officer Shoots Defendant with his "Hands Up"

[black22rifle]

If the guy that got shot was known for shooting at police this may be ruled a good shoot. A few years ago in IN there was a case where a bad guy shot some guy over some odd reason, the victim survived, and the bad guy went to jail for x amount of years. Fast forward 10 or so years and the victim has since gotten his LTCH and began carrying. One day the victim sees the bad guy at some sort of party and as the bad guy is approaching him he reaches for his waist, I don't remember if he had a gun or not, but the victim draws and smokes him right there. I believe the case went ll the way to the IN Sureme Court I dont remember but it was ruled self defense. This may be a similar case.

[Honu]

Ya, who knows he could've had a suicide vest on too...or an RPG under the seat...or some C4......

so you agree that this (above) is a rational statement you agree with ?

IMHO you lost the argument part when you say childish stuff like this and go for extremes ? again like anti gun folks do ?
that is IMHO again LOOSING it big time

as far as escalating ? sounds like you are talking to my 6 and 10 year old where both parties should strive to get along ?
you are talking about a convicted criminal who has shot LEO in the past AND HAD A GUN ? do you really think once they go down the path of being combative and not listening they are on the lets strive to get along path ?

yes I dont like the power and attitude that to many LEO seem to be wielding and dont like the mandatory stops etc... but I am level headed enough to realize this is a one off situation and one that LEO face off with

Baby Jesus in his gently rocking cradle knows, I don't always agree with J-Dub. His arguments have been in the past, in my perception, to often want to assume no wrongdoing by LEOs. Whether I have been right or wrong, in this case I strongly agree with his comments.

The example given wasn't "losing it". It was something everyone here should be glad an LEO like J-Dub still believes in, that being the very dangerous path we start down when "maybe he was going to..." is an acceptable explanation of deadly force.

How many members here carry every day? You want Officer Panicky and his confusing commands to be the reason you get lit up one night when your vehicle matches the description some nosey neighbor called in? Hey you might be innocent, but then again if you're carrying...well maybe you were going to ambush them later. So better dead now, right? Trials are for liberals and hippies.


I'm honestly a little surprised and disappointed by the amount of MOLON LABE, rooftop votin', 2A loving patriots are in this thread saying "If you don't follow a cops orders you are guilty and deserve to be shot". I was under the impression that sort of muj-esque activity mostly seen in third world shit holes was something we didn't want here. Or is our justice system not for all citizens as one might foolishly believe? Yeah there's ways to de escalate a situation. Thats something both parties should strive to do, but I would assert that if one party were OBLIGATED to make every attempt to, it would be the LE Professional.

[J-Dub]

Ya, who knows he could've had a suicide vest on too...or an RPG under the seat...or some C4......

so you agree that this (above) is a rational statement you agree with ?

IMHO you lost the argument part when you say childish stuff like this and go for extremes ? again like anti gun folks do ?
that is IMHO again LOOSING it big time

as far as escalating ? sounds like you are talking to my 6 and 10 year old where both parties should strive to get along ?
you are talking about a convicted criminal who has shot LEO in the past AND HAD A GUN ? do you really think once they go down the path of being combative and not listening they are on the lets strive to get along path ?

yes I dont like the power and attitude that to many LEO seem to be wielding and dont like the mandatory stops etc... but I am level headed enough to realize this is a one off situation and one that LEO face off with

It WAS SARCASM for the love of jesus. Yes HE COULDVE had a gun, that's great, and SARCASTICALLY I made the above comment. Seriously, this is your big hang up in the discussion???? Not that some Officer completely lost his shit on the side of the road. But that I made a sarcastic comment regarding what the dead man "MIGHT HAVE HAD".

There's no argument to lose. Im stating my opinion. The entire situation was handled poorly, very poorly. I've got to wonder if this was how this officer was trained to handle such situations? Hit the "freak the hell out" button and go beast mode??? Or actually handle the situation in a calm collected "act like you've been there before" manner. Usually clear, concise directions are preferred over "DONT ****ING MOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHOW ME YOUR ****ING HANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Especially when its a gun, SITTING IN A GLOVE BOX. By all means, lose your shit and go beast mode if its actually IN SOMEONE'S HAND, or being pointed at you.

There is no way in hell I would EVER advocate handling a situation in the manner this was done, ever. People you stop could be shitheads, there are probably weapons in every car you stop, if this is how you react when the two are mixed, you're probably going to be gunning down a lot of folks.

[Honu]

the bold part ? he DID have a gun and he is a convicted felon who has shot LEO before so once again you are trying to get away from the facts and ANYONE here will always assume people who are armed often carry more than one kinda weapon many carry a backup gun and I bet almost all of us are packing some kinda blade also

again I dont see it as some LEO lost it ?

I understand that but the fact you had to say that made you loose the argument IMHO trying to bring it to some childish level or blow so far past reality ?
it again is something the left does with guns ? OH what do you want next rocket launchers and C4
so when folks say stuff like this its lost IMHO if you are being serious be serious about it !


I see a convicted felon with a gun and history of shooting LEO fighting to get out of the car then FACE and put his hands up and advance toward the LEO
if you took much martial arts he actually had a good ready to fight arm position going and not a I give up hands up position and then turn around


you said:
Sorry, I assumed the board was for DISCUSSION. Not blindly following what everyone else is thinking. I apologize. Tag'em and Bag'em...who cares.

again I am just saying maybe we are not all blind and just all see it and agree with each other ? that does not make one blind ? if anything it makes the odd one out who cant see it as everyone else does the blind one ?
much like being color blind not seeing blue as blue

It WAS SARCASM for the love of jesus. Yes HE COULDVE had a gun, that's great, and SARCASTICALLY I made the above comment. Seriously, this is your big hang up in the discussion???? Not that some Officer completely lost his shit on the side of the road. But that I made a sarcastic comment regarding what the dead man "MIGHT HAVE HAD".

[J-Dub]

No there WAS a gun in the glove box. The gun was removed from the vehicle. Did you even watch the video???? At the time of the shooting HE DID NOT HAVE A WEAPON. Prior to the shooting, he NEVER HAD THE WEAPON IN HIS PHYSICAL POSSESSION.

Lol fighting position???? You're kidding me right? Oh ya, he got out all bladed off ready to do some bruce lee shit all right........(rolling my eyes).

It would've been great if the Officer would've given a logical command like "turn around, put your hands behind your back (or on head), get down on your knees and cross your ankles, sit back on your feet, don't move" or "get on the ground, arms out like an airplane, don't move".

But he didn't. He just shot him. Again its a shit storm of a situation. And personally I've never had the thought cross my mind "well this guy is a felon, so I can shoot him if I think he might do something".


(p.s. please figure out the difference between "loose" and "lose"...then we can talk about being taken seriously. Thanks)

[MountainRaven]

Everybody just needs to remember one thing: This happened in New Jersey.

Where thugs who run get shot. Gun owners who get lost get arrested. And football players who abuse their SOs get probation.

[Honu]

the fact the gun was in the glove box is breaking the law
and was in reach of a convicted felon

passenger side glove box directly in front of him how did the LEO see the pistol ? I think all of us but you will see that as a situation where he most likely was ready to grab it especially knowing his past
and again most LEO I know assume if they just took gun from a convicted felon on person or within easy grabbing distance that he might still be armed and they will treat him as such

most convicted felons I think also know the drill of giving up or fighting and to get out face off is not the correct move


your bruce lee comments ? again childish at best but yes your arms up like that is kinda a ready position and not sure what bladed off means ? but whatever

No there WAS a gun in the glove box. The gun was removed from the vehicle. Did you even watch the video???? At the time of the shooting HE DID NOT HAVE A WEAPON. Prior to the shooting, he NEVER HAD THE WEAPON IN HIS PHYSICAL POSSESSION.

Lol fighting position???? You're kidding me right? Oh ya, he got out all bladed off ready to do some bruce lee shit all right........(rolling my eyes).

It would've been great if the Officer would've given a logical command like "turn around, put your hands behind your back (or on head), get down on your knees and cross your ankles, sit back on your feet, don't move" or "get on the ground, arms out like an airplane, don't move".

But he didn't. He just shot him. Again its a shit storm of a situation. And personally I've never had the thought cross my mind "well this guy is a felon, so I can shoot him if I think he might do something".


(p.s. please figure out the difference between "loose" and "lose"...then we can talk about being taken seriously. Thanks)

[Irish]

Tone it down... Mellow out... Take a chill pill...

[SeriousStudent]

Tone it down... Mellow out... Take a chill pill...

Superb advice to all, and highly recommended.

Folks, if you wish to discuss this case, then please discuss the case. When someone adds personalization and dramatics, it really does not lend any weight to their side of the debate.

[An Undocumented Worker]

If the passenger in that car took a chill pill he'd be alive today.