Which two and which one first?

[TexanInCali]

Hi all,

This may be a bit of an odd question, but I'm looking to get into handguns, and since M4C served me very well when getting into ARs (ended up with a BCM KMR mid length as my first AR thanks to great advice), I'm hoping to get some guidance on my foray into the pistol world.

Given that I live in California, I can only buy one every 30 days and have a very limited selection due to the California roster of approved handguns ( http://certguns.doj.ca.gov ). Also, as concealed carry up in the air at this time where I live, carry is not a consideration for now. If it becomes possible, I will buy a specific carry gun.

I've done a fair amount of research, and have narrowed my choices down to what I think I'd like as my first two handguns. The main purpose of these guns will be to learn. I’ll be taking a few handgun classes this year. Beyond that, they’ll see mostly range duty and potentially home carry. I prefer my AR as an overall HD weapon, but handgun home carry seems like it might be a good option for waking hours at home.

Basically, I'd like a pretty standard semi-automatic in 9mm and a nice 1911. My budget for the two is around $4k to $5k for both, not including accessories, ammo, etc.

For the “basic” semi-auto, I’m looking at a Sig P226. Of the models still available in California, I’d probably go to with the P226 Extreme. Those G10 grips are ugly, but very comfortable. I’ve shot various P226 over the years and held the Extreme, which fit great. Other options I’m considering are the CZ 75 and H&K USP. Newer options like H&K VP9, Sig 320 are not approved for sale here.

For the 1911, I’m considering a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special or an Ed Brown Special Forces. I’m leaning towards the EB. I’ve shot a variety of cheaper 1911s through the years, but never anything as nice as these.

Am I barking up the right tree with the Sig P226 and the EB Special Forces? I’m drawn to these two models because of the build quality. I realize there are other models/brands in both categories that may be more accurate, or better in some other way, but these two feel good in my hands and while I haven’t shot the two specific models, I’ve liked shooting 1911s and P226s in the past.


The other part of the question is which one of these should I take my first class with? I have limited experience with either or handguns in general. Given the 30 day limit, I’ll probably have time to get both in time for my first class in March, but I’d like some time to get used to the one I’m going to take to the class.

I’ve though that I might want to use the 1911 for the class as I’m most wary of the SA 1911 mechanism and the recommended condition 1 carry. I understand the reasons this is recommended and they make sense, but it still freaks me out a bit and I feel like learning how to use this in a class setting might be easier.

I'd appreciate any guidance. I’m a noob at this and apologize for any stupid questions or assumptions.

Thanks,
T

[MountainRaven]

Random suggestion: Save your money up and buy a Wilson or Nighthawk 1911 in 9mm.

Best of all possible worlds. Or at least what I'd likely do if limited to 10 rounds and wanting a 9mm and a 1911 with a one gun/30 day limit.

Otherwise I'd look at a P220, P225, or H&K P7 - all in 9mm. I don't see a reason to buy something as bulky as a P226 when you're limited to 10 rounds, instead of the 18+1 that a P226 can easily hold.

[TexanInCali]

Random suggestion: Save your money up and buy a Wilson or Nighthawk 1911 in 9mm.

Best of all possible worlds. Or at least what I'd likely do if limited to 10 rounds and wanting a 9mm and a 1911 with a one gun/30 day limit.

Otherwise I'd look at a P220, P225, or H&K P7 - all in 9mm. I don't see a reason to buy something as bulky as a P226 when you're limited to 10 rounds, instead of the 18+1 that a P226 can easily hold.

Unfortunately, neither brand has any 9mm 1911s in the roster.

I've tried the P226 and the P229. Never the P220. Besides bulk, is there any reason you prefer it?

Can't find the P7 on the roster.

[Psalms144.1]

That's a tough question for those of us not in CA - I'm not really sure what's "available" for y'all anymore. I'm a BIG fan of the P226 in 9mm - a soft shooting, very accurate pistol with a perfectly workable trigger that only gets better with time. I carried one for work for several years, and, besides the weight, size inefficiency (compared to Glocks) and rust issues, I had no problems. Grips are a moot point - if you don't like the ones on the pistol, replace them. I am also, however, a CZ fanboi, and have always wanted one. I'm assuming from your two choice that concealed carry is a non-starter, in which case the CZ SP01, especially if you can get one "tweaked" from CZ Custom, would be a real contender for me. An advantage of the CZ line is that, while you will have the DA/SA trigger, you can have a manual thumb safety that functions in a fashion similar to your other platform of choice. The Sig's manual of arms is "different" enough from the 1911's that you'll need to think about them when you switch between pistols. I'll also admit that, when I got into LE and started carrying DA/SA Sigs for duty, I grounded my 1911s because I found that I couldn't shoot either of them up to my potential when I switched back and forth. When I got used to the Sig heavy, long DA, I would smash the snot out of the 1911's trigger. When I got "spoiled" by the 1911 trigger, my ability to shoot accurate DA shots with the Sig dropped off.

WRT 1911s, I've also lusted after an Ed Brown for as long as I've been shooting handguns (coming up on 35 years now). I don't think there's any way you would get one and be disappointed, since you've obviously have the scratch to "buy quality, and only cry once." If I won the lotto tomorrow, once I moved the HELL out of NY, an Ed Brown 1911 would be VERY high on my list of "toys" to buy. The Les Baer is no slouch, either, but, to me, compared to the hand-built Brown, it just doesn't compare.

Regards,

Kevin

[teutonicpolymer]

Les Baer Premier II (on roster) or equivalent - I am pretty sure the Thunder Ranch is identical to a LB carry model except it says Thunder Ranch nd costs more

A used S&W pre-internal-lock pre-mim or a Ruger GP100 DA/SA revolver - Check online for guides on how to inspect a revolcer when buying, not all revolvers are equal

Ammo, holsters, sights if needed, magwell for the 1911, bellt(s), mag pouches, speed loaders/moonclips, speed loader pouches/moonclip holders or posts

If I had your budget and still lived in the People's Liberation Republic of California that is what I would get. The Les Baer teaches you how to use an autoloader, like reloading, dealing with malfunctions, and it isn't like you lose capacity. The revolver teaches you trigger discipline, and it is good to know how to use a wheel gun regardless. I notice I do better with autoloaders after doing some wheel gun shooting. Both should be capable of extreme accuracy for a handgun.

[Linea_de_Fuego]

Condition 1 with a 1911 that has a good detent for the thumb safety with a good holster and there should be no problem. It is not an issue when you are familiar with the 1911 platform. You can look in CA for a used pistol and have more available to you than what may currently be on the roster. All the 1911's you noted are desirable examples that are nicer than other production guns without the extra attention.

If you like the Sig 226 then go with it.

Depending on what type of class you want to take will determine if the 1911 or the Sig 226 is better for the class.

[YVK]

Use your local resources and talk to resident CA shooters about mags first. A lot of experienced people feel that 10 rounders may be less reliable than full sized ones. Often times 10 rounders are made by neutering full mags vs being purpose built.

If your purpose is to learn, I don't believe having two different systems is beneficial. Kevin has made a point about switching back and forth above. I would consider the priorities, aspirations, pros and cons of each, and choose what resonates the most to you. Sig 226 Extreme and Sig 220, or a pair of 1911s, one 9 mm and one 45. You get similar systems, variability of calibers in case of ammo shortages and purpose build mags at least for 45.

You should take your first class with a 9 mm gun.

[RAM Engineer]

The only 226 on the list I'd take is the MK25 variant. I would probably take a USP or P2000 over that though.

Wilson or Nighthawk over Les Baer any day.

[TexanInCali]

Use your local resources and talk to resident CA shooters about mags first. A lot of experienced people feel that 10 rounders may be less reliable than full sized ones. Often times 10 rounders are made by neutering full mags vs being purpose built.

If your purpose is to learn, I don't believe having two different systems is beneficial. Kevin has made a point about switching back and forth above. I would consider the priorities, aspirations, pros and cons of each, and choose what resonates the most to you. Sig 226 Extreme and Sig 220, or a pair of 1911s, one 9 mm and one 45. You get similar systems, variability of calibers in case of ammo shortages and purpose build mags at least for 45.

You should take your first class with a 9 mm gun.

Several friends that own California 10 round US made P226s haven't reported problems. You are right about the design change. It's certainly less than ideal from an engineering standpoint.

Trying to learn two at once would certainly be confusing. The plan is to pick one and stick with it through range time and classes for at least a year. Beyond initial testing to make sure it works, anything else I buy will go in the safe. The need to buy more than one is driven by the roster. Otherwise, I'd just focus on one. It's hard enough to pick one gun, let alone two.

Would you consider the USP 45 a good complement to the P226?

[TexanInCali]

Condition 1 with a 1911 that has a good detent for the thumb safety with a good holster and there should be no problem. It is not an issue when you are familiar with the 1911 platform. You can look in CA for a used pistol and have more available to you than what may currently be on the roster. All the 1911's you noted are desirable examples that are nicer than other production guns without the extra attention.

If you like the Sig 226 then go with it.

Depending on what type of class you want to take will determine if the 1911 or the Sig 226 is better for the class.

From an engineering standpoint, condition 1 is perfectly sound as you state. I just want to have an instructor show me the proper operation.

I'll be taking a one day Introduction to Tactical Handgun class from a local outfit followed up by a one day intermediate class the next month. These are courses at a local outdoor range by retired LE and military instructors. Beyond that, I'd like to go to a multi-day class at a more training focused facility, but haven't picked a place.

Regardless, I'd like to pick one gun and stick with it almost exclusively for at least a year. For the classes, I'll select one gun and stick with it for all the classes, with the other as a backup.

The driving force behind wanting to buy more than one at the moment is the infamous roster.