Which two and which one first?

[teutonicpolymer]

I stand corrected, didn't know that - thanks.

Yeah there used to be a work around to get them there called single shot exemption where the dealer sells it as a single shot pistol with some extended barrel. The buyer was then free to convert it back after. The other "options" are rare and include (I may be wrong) new transplants to CA bringing them in and registering them or law enforcement selling them after purchasing them because they are exempted from the "safe gun" roster. It isan extraordinarily complicated mess which just serves to arbitrarily restrict what gun owners can buy. There is also some crap about microstamping chmabers which makes it even more cost prohibitive (manufacturers had to submit guns and pay money to CA for testing of the roster pistols for CA's safety rules). CA DOJ obviously is unaware that man has developed these things called tools which can alter the microstamp and that one could just buy an aftermarket part. Then again these things are meant to just be barriers to entry for gun makersto reduce availability inside the state and are only meant to help prevent or solve crime at face value.

[RAM Engineer]

A few of my friends have the MK25 and they're great. Besides the anti-corrosion coating, why would you pick the MK25 over the P226 extreme?

More importantly, why do you prefer the USP? In the USP, would you prefer 9mm to 45? I was actually thinking of a USP 45 Elite as maybe a third pistol. I've shot a few USPs in 9mm and 45 and they're very nice.

I want to get a few worthwhile pieces before everything good drops off the roster and would like at least one H&K.

I've had issues with older site I used to have, corroding at the mere mention of rain in the forecast. Any corrosion inhibiting treatment I could get would be worthwhile. Of course this is pre-stainless slides, but it was usually small parts that showed issues first. Also, as far as I know, the MK25 is the ONLY 226 variant that has a properly dimensioned 1913 rail. I have to admit, I'm not familiar with the "Extreme", since it is a product of the "new variant every Friday" mentality.

While I used to be a huge Sig supporter back in the 90's/early 00's, they've had too many ups and downs in quality for me to recommend them over HK. I think newer Sigs are ok, but I KNOW that new or used, any HK you buy will probably last forever. EXCEPT for the grip feeling like a block of wood, I've enjoyed every USP variant I've shot or owned. Stick with oem parts and mags and you'll not go wrong. I like the regular USPs the best due to widest availability of holsters.

[Uni-Vibe]

First: good 1911 in 9mm

2nd: Browning Hi-Power in 9mm



They're the ones to have when things get serious.

[YVK]

I'm just not sure which to learn first. I'm leaning towards starting with the 45. I've always shot other people's 45s better than their 9s. I'm sure this is entirely the result of my total lack of pistol handling skills. Still, I just like the way the metal 45s feel.
.

I'd try to get a bit more introspective with this and understand a meaning to "shoot other people's 45s" better. What's better and why? A lot of folks pick up a 45, print nice slow groups, and call it better. Most of the time it turns out to be a function of good trigger and sight radius, not caliber, because more often than not that 45 turns out to be a 5" 1911.
45 is legitimately harder to shoot, no matter what interwebz experts say. It also can induce more bad habits. Some of the better shooter development programs use .22 for ALL beginners, big strong man included. You're unlikely to pick a wrong gun simply because almost all of them are just fine, irrespective of brand, as long as you stay within the usual suspects group. But you can easily pick a wrong starting caliber and that will screw up your progress. Stick with 9 early on.

Would you consider the USP 45 a good complement to the P226?

Yes, USP is a great gun with a conceptually similar trigger, although I am not sure why not P220.

As I said above, your gun selection is secondary to goals and aspirations.
If you decided today that you'll become the best shooter you can be, buy two samples of the same gun in 9 mm - G17, P226, 1911 - and press on with your training. All of them will support your development if you do your part; the choice is simply a function of how much dedication you have and how versatile you want to be.
If you want to spend some time to figure out your preferences, then it makes sense to buy two guns on the opposite ends of a spectrum - say, 226 and 1911. I'd still make an argument of keeping both the same caliber for fair comparison purposes.
If you just want to have fun and enjoy your guns, buy two with a highest sex appeal and enjoy.

MK25 vs 226: 25 has old, short extractor that a lot of die hard SIG fans consider a better design than current long extractor on 226. Some folks have bought 25 just for that reason alone. Because of a bigger rail, MK25 will have less holster options because that rail does create issues with holster compatibility.

[teutonicpolymer]

I'd try to get a bit more introspective with this and understand a meaning to "shoot other people's 45s" better. What's better and why? A lot of folks pick up a 45, print nice slow groups, and call it better. Most of the time it turns out to be a function of good trigger and sight radius, not caliber, because more often than not that 45 turns out to be a 5" 1911.
45 is legitimately harder to shoot, no matter what interwebz experts say. It also can induce more bad habits. Some of the better shooter development programs use .22 for ALL beginners, big strong man included. You're unlikely to pick a wrong gun simply because almost all of them are just fine, irrespective of brand, as long as you stay within the usual suspects group. But you can easily pick a wrong starting caliber and that will screw up your progress. Stick with 9 early on.



Yes, USP is a great gun with a conceptually similar trigger, although I am not sure why not P220.

As I said above, your gun selection is secondary to goals and aspirations.
If you decided today that you'll become the best shooter you can be, buy two samples of the same gun in 9 mm - G17, P226, 1911 - and press on with your training. All of them will support your development if you do your part; the choice is simply a function of how much dedication you have and how versatile you want to be.
If you want to spend some time to figure out your preferences, then it makes sense to buy two guns on the opposite ends of a spectrum - say, 226 and 1911. I'd still make an argument of keeping both the same caliber for fair comparison purposes.
If you just want to have fun and enjoy your guns, buy two with a highest sex appeal and enjoy.

MK25 vs 226: 25 has old, short extractor that a lot of die hard SIG fans consider a better design than current long extractor on 226. Some folks have bought 25 just for that reason alone. Because of a bigger rail, MK25 will have less holster options because that rail does create issues with holster compatibility.

.45 is not all that much harder to shoot than 9mm, if there is a common caliber that is harder to shoot I would say it is .40 S&W. For new shooters I would say it is hard to go wrong starting them on a .38 special revolver because the recoil is minimal but it is still a centerfire, plus it would be a shame for someone that is seriously interested in learning how to shoot well to not know how to use a wheelgun.

My thought is that starting with a DA/SA platform doesn't make all that much sense if you are new to handguns. Shooting handguns well is hard enough, why complicate it by also constantly having to transition from double action to single action between your first and second shot? If you want to learn trigger control a double action revolver can teach you that better probably. If you are absolutely opposed to the idea of a revolver to compliment semi-autos then I'd say instead get a striker fired DAO gun. At the end of the day there aren't even that many options left on the roster anymore (example: S&W M&P's are gone minus the Shields).

[Mysteryman]

Hi folks,

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I have some follow up. If I ask for clarification, it's not that I don't agree with what you're saying, but that I'd in fact like to hear more.


In particular, a few of you brought up a concern I'd had, which is the significant differences in manual of arms between a 1911 and a Sig or other more recent semi-auto. While this is definitely a concern, I intend to buy both, but focus on one at a time. I've done the same things with rifles. I have an AR and a Mini 14. I spent a year learning and practicing with each exclusively. My plan is to do the same with handguns.

If these are to be defensive firearms first and foremost I see no benefit in learning multiple platforms and/or supporting multiple calibres. The KISS principle has a lot of merit.

I don't mean to say that after a year I'm anything but slightly less of a noob, but in a year of classes and frequent range time, I get a pretty good idea of what I like and don't like about a gun and where my skills with it need improvement.

I'm just not sure which to learn first. I'm leaning towards starting with the 45. I've always shot other people's 45s better than their 9s. I'm sure this is entirely the result of my total lack of pistol handling skills. Still, I just like the way the metal 45s feel.

Again, and I'm not trying to be a d*ck here. The "feel" of a firearm has zero to do with its ability to perform or yours. The "feel" shouldn't even be a consideration when selecting a defensive use firearm. Your better perceived performance with a 1911 over other designs is a result of a heavy gun with a short and light trigger. All of which cover up poor form and give the illusion of being a better shooter than you really are. I'm not a 1911 fan at all and it has nothing to do with brand loyalty/time spent with other guns/trying to be different etc etc. I dislike 1911's as defensive handguns for several logical and practical reasons which I have listed below.

Heavy
Large in size(full size, as it is the most common)
Low capacity
Heavy recoil (45ACP)
Manual safety(not necessary)
Fitted parts as opposed to drop in
Expensive
Most have no light rail
unreliable(its true, 1911's are not as reliable as you think)

Investing more of your budget into training than gear will pay off ten fold. Any quality pistol will do the job regardless of brand(good brands, not Jennings or Hi Point type sh*t) or calibre, its you that makes the shot(s) not the gun. Improving your skills through training will carry over to all firearms and every shot you take. If you're after a fun gun then buy it last and shoot it after focusing on training with your defensive or "go to" gun.

Of the guns you're interested in I would go with the SIG first and shoot the living crap out of it at the range and at as many courses as you can afford to attend. A defensive firearm needs to be reliable, simple to operate and as high capacity as you can practically carry/conceal.

The decision to buy both now is primarily driven by the stupid roster. Most of the Sig models fall of the list at the end of 2015. Also, I'm seeing great prices on Sigs, H&Ks and others on my short list right now, so I want to snap one up while the getting's good. Plus, I have the scratch, so let's do it.


As far as the 1911s, I'm leaning hard towards Ed Brown for a few reasons.

Most importantly, they seem to make spectacular guns that run flawlessly from day one. Also, I like the fact that the Cali blued Ed Brows SF is kind of a plain jane looking gun from a distance. Outside of 1911 guys, not too many even know what it is.

While I agree that Wilson Combat is as good or better, everybody and their hi point loving thug cousin know what a Wilson Combat is and that they cost a bunch of money. They're beautiful and attract tons of attention. Once I get my butt back to Texas where I can join a nice private range, I'll get one, but at Cali public ranges, I like to keep a low profile. The KMR got me a lot of unwanted attention at the range when it first came out. I know this is kind of a dumb reason to some folks. Call me paranoid.

There's a separate budget for training. I'll attend a few local tactical handgun classes, then some good dedicated training facility. I'll try someplace in Texas if possible.

Read above, I'm in the bold.

MM

[MountainRaven]

Unfortunately, neither brand has any 9mm 1911s in the roster.

I've tried the P226 and the P229. Never the P220. Besides bulk, is there any reason you prefer it?

Can't find the P7 on the roster.

Well, a P220 in 9mm is obviously going to be a German-made SiG by default. Same with the P225 (equivalent in size to a P228/229 but skinny).

But other than that, no. Again, it's because of magazine capacity. I love the P226, but see no reason to live with the bulk if I can't utilize it to its fullest. Like having a pick up that is the same size and gets the same gas mileage as a 3/4-ton, but can only haul 1/4-ton.

I doubt you'd find the P7 on The List because it has been several years since H&K manufactured them.

All of these options are pretty definitely going to be used, although SiG does occasionally import overruns on contracts for P220s and P225s for government purchasers that still use the older, single-stack SiGs. I doubt these can be sold in California, although I do see that the P6 is listed, which is the German government designation for the P225. (And now I need to see if I can find a decently priced surplus P6/P225.)

[Trajan]

G19 cut to take G26 mags.

Then ammo and training.

[SkiDevil]

TexanInCali,

For availability of a particular model I would recommend Calguns.net forum. Just about any model handgun is available in California through private party purchase, the only difference is that for some models you will be paying more than if you purchased it in another state.

My suggestion to you is to purchase a reliable and well proven model. I recommended to a co-worker the HK USP series. The biggest reason is because there is little to no parts replacement needed, the guns are very accurate, readily available, and require a minimum of cleaning/ reliable.

I would look at at picking-up a HK USP 45 (full-size) and the USP 9 (standard). These pistols are both well proven and will give years of service. If you have small hands, then check-out the compact models.

With the HK you may be able to fire up to 20,000 rounds with no parts replacement, according to the factory depending on your shooting schedule.

As for the SIG 226, excellent pistol. I own four myself, but have transitioned over to HK for the added durability and lessened maintenance. As I told a friend, if you can shoot an HK D/A pistol, then you will be able to shoot any handgun well.

[Linea_de_Fuego]

TexanInCali,

For availability of a particular model I would recommend Calguns.net forum. Just about any model handgun is available in California through private party purchase, the only difference is that for some models you will be paying more than if you purchased it in another state.

I agree to check there and on the EE here. High end 1911's are not seen as often but they can be found. It may be that what you want is new, but some models not on the list may be found in CA used. It is likely that quality 1911's will be well cared for.