249/240 marksmanship and general use tips

[R0N]

Get a copy of MCWP 3-15.1 Marine Corps Machine guns and Machine-Gunnery it is bit better than the FM

[R0N]

Not sure on the range yet - it'll either be paper or pop up qualification. F2S, those are exactly the types of things I was looking for, thanks.

Euro - technically, yes haha. But I like to have some of my own background knowledge when I have to run something.

GTF - WSLs as in weapons squad leaders? I'm in a field maintenance company so we have armament repairers, but not too many NCOs that have a lot of experience using them.


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Over the last 13 years our skills in machine gunnery have seriously deteriorated we have got good at using them as bullet hoses but have forgot the full spectrum of their uses

[Wake27]

Get a copy of MCWP 3-15.1 Marine Corps Machine guns and Machine-Gunnery it is bit better than the FM

Will do, thanks. We actually have a 25th ID course that I'm in right now that is branded as an overall leader's program, but marksmanship is a key component. They've modeled it after AWG and AMU programs so its pretty solid and they said a lot of times they'll flex to other units and help them run ranges. I was hoping that included machine gun ranges but the primary instructor said he's trying to get some of his guys into a Marine MG course, but it hasn't happened yet so unfortunately they can't help me too much.

[Wake27]

Over the last 13 years our skills in machine gunnery have seriously deteriorated we have got good at using them as bullet hoses but have forgot the full spectrum of their uses

And that's part of the reason I asked. I have plenty of NCOs that have experience on both in a combat zone and are fully capable of running a regular qual range, but as with everything they bring the bad unit SOPs/TTPs along with the good. I definitely do need to dig into the FMs though, the course I mentioned above has really highlighted how well our doctrine for rifle marksmanship has evolved - it's just the middle management that has been very slow to implement.


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[BushmasterFanBoy]

I've only had a decent amount of trigger time behind the SAW, the 240 much less so. F2S is spot on the money.

Most joes who lug around a SAW are extremely unfamiliar with it, the biggest obstacle towards their comfort being that it's open bolt. There's almost a re-conceptualization that has to occur in their heads about how the weapon works. In my experience with the SAW, my biggest hassle was with the first round, there's obviously a reason why open bolt weapons aren't the initiators for ambushes, and it often left me feeling very naked that I frequently had to clear stoppages, that in my honest opinion, probably would not be occurring if my company had an actual parts maintenance/replacement plan in place. But, I worked with what I had, and you adapt.

As for the firing of the weapon itself, way too much emphasis is put on bipod supported positions with the SAW, when in reality, there will be less than half the time you're going to encounter a good place to set up and shoot from a bipod with a good sector of fire, at least as part of an assault element. Pulling security or support by fire is another animal, but there is a huge gap of training that leaves a lot to be desired from using the SAW as part of a rapidly bounding/advancing fireteam that finds itself shooting from a variety of less than ideal positions. I tried to minimize the load on my weapon as much as I could, opting for a shorter barrel, removing the heat guards, etc but the gun itself is still a bitch to work with when what you really want is something more along the lines of an actual automatic rifle.

Being comfortable with utilizing the SAW as part of an aggressive, assaulting element, is in my mind, what separates decent gunners from great ones. A decent SAW gunner can qual off a bipod on a square range all day long. And a good SAW gunner will find his own way to optimize his sectors of fire to make sure he can lay down local support by fire. Ah, but a great SAW gunner will be firing it on the move as he's forced to take a #2 slot in the stack during MOUT or be muscling it on target during a 9 round burst off a knee in the woods because hunkering down with the bipod isn't giving him the view he needs to suppress the enemy. Most PFCs who get put on it never get to that level, usually getting phased out to some other position or making TL without any SAW time, and its a shame because its a great way to build character, confidence, and learn firsthand the meat and potatoes of a fireteams business as an infantryman in a line squad.

[Arctic1]

In my experience with the SAW, my biggest hassle was with the first round, there's obviously a reason why open bolt weapons aren't the initiators for ambushes,

Curious about what makes you say that.

[BushmasterFanBoy]

Curious about what makes you say that.

Open bolt belt fed mg's are notorious for going "chunk" when you want to hear bang. It's a very common SOP that's taught even in the Ranger handbook that ambushes are not initiated with your mg's for that reason. Leadership kicks it off with their M4's and the gunners instantly follow suit. As for why, either the links get fubar'ed during movement, the feeder paws are ****ed up to begin with, or the rounds just aren't set properly (loading at night during mass tac jumps will do this, especially with inexperienced gunners wearing winter gloves and/or cold numbed hands so they don't get the proper tactile feedback to do this task in blindness) but it's been my experience, more commonly with blanks than live ammo, that nearly 50% of the time, your first round will either not fire, or be a single shot. Either way, remedial action is not the way you want to start the fight.

[Wake27]

Open bolt belt fed mg's are notorious for going "chunk" when you want to hear bang. It's a very common SOP that's taught even in the Ranger handbook that ambushes are not initiated with your mg's for that reason. Leadership kicks it off with their M4's and the gunners instantly follow suit.

Do you know where in the handbook it says that? I was always taught that they should be kicked off with the most casualty producing weapon, which very well could be an open bolt MG.


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[Mr blasty]

Open bolt belt fed mg's are notorious for going "chunk" when you want to hear bang. It's a very common SOP that's taught even in the Ranger handbook that ambushes are not initiated with your mg's for that reason. Leadership kicks it off with their M4's and the gunners instantly follow suit. As for why, either the links get fubar'ed during movement, the feeder paws are ****ed up to begin with, or the rounds just aren't set properly (loading at night during mass tac jumps will do this, especially with inexperienced gunners wearing winter gloves and/or cold numbed hands so they don't get the proper tactile feedback to do this task in blindness) but it's been my experience, more commonly with blanks than live ammo, that nearly 50% of the time, your first round will either not fire, or be a single shot. Either way, remedial action is not the way you want to start the fight.

It's my understanding that sop is for a mg's to never be the first through a door for this reason.

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[echo5whiskey]

Two things out of the way first: 1) I've never read the Ranger handbook. 2) I was not a Machine Gunner by MOS, so I'm not an expert; but I do have more than my share of experience with open-bolt MGs.

I was also taught, from Infantry School all the way up to Squad Leaders' Course, that nothing is initiated with an open-bolt weapon. It never mattered if you were setting an ambush or conducting CQB. Half the time, a SAW gunner could only get a single-three round burst--five if he was lucky--before the gun jammed, and he had to perform immediate action. The 240s seemed a bit more reliable, but my hands-on was mostly with SAWs, and 50s (I know they're not open-bolt).