Found a great use for +P ammo

[wildcard600]

You would be better off going back to the tracer idea (still not a good plan).

IMO

[sevenhelmet]

Just load all tracers. Or better yet, incendiaries. Ever seen what an incendiary round does to a home invader? Neither has the jury.


Kidding, kidding, all in good fun...

[nimdabew]

Did you get this from reddit or something?

[teutonicpolymer]

I can't feel a difference between +p and regular

This isn't like .357 mag vs .38 spc

[Straight Shooter]

I will say that without any doubt, the +P 230 Magtech ammo I have is very noticeable in recoil compared to standard pressure 230 ammo.
That being said...I would have a distinct fear of THAT being my cue to reload when shits hittin the fan. I would re-think that plan sir.

[Shao]

Well, I figured my idea wouldn't be met with much enthusiasm. I've always been an opponent of mixing ammo in mags (besides when I was a kid and did the tracer thing). I usually practice with my carry load (yes, it gets expensive). Now, I'm not defending my idea, because it's just that - an idea - I've heard of other people doing the tracer thing but never the +p thing. I've fired thousands of rounds of 230gr HST and know exactly what to expect when I pull the trigger. A +P HST COULD (I say could because I've never popped one off) produce enough difference in felt recoil that I BELIEVE that it COULD be a useful trick. Same as those saying that I wouldn't notice the extra kick when my adrenaline is pumping - when you're in engaged in a fight or flight situation, counting rounds is also something far from your mind. Sometimes during rapid fire drills I lose track of how many I've let loose. I agree with most of you that it's probably a bad idea - but, if you trained exclusively with the technique, there's no doubt in my mind that it could be useful. Not everyone gets an adrenaline surge and tunnel vision when engaging in combat, regardless of the weapon being used.

If you're cool as a cucumber and are able to "fight past the haze" of your fight or flight response... I'm just saying... No two people are the same. I've been in a lot of fist fights and even had a few knives pulled on me. I've been attacked by multiple aggressors. I've trained in martial arts my whole life. When I was young, I would get tunnel vision and go into berserk mode (hulk smash). After enough fights and training I learned to overcome that reaction and remain calm - allowing me to control the fight and thus win. I can't claim to have been in a gun fight, but I imagine it's exactly the same.

Anyway, not trying to argue - just throwing out an idea that I still think may have some viability. No two people are the same and to instantly presume that someone is going to lose it in a gun fight and not be able to tell the difference between firing 12 rounds of normal pressure loads immediately followed by a +P round is kind of... close minded, honestly. Coming up with new ideas, no matter how impractical they may seem can lead to new thoughts and advancements in training. I'm not saying it's the greatest idea ever, but I'm not willing to instantly discount it as an effective technique. No one should until they've tried it and can actually report back as to whether or not it helped them. Until then it's all conjecture. I don't claim to be right... It's just conjecture.

You can continue to rag on me for thinking of a use for my +P HSTs, but I wasn't trying to say that it's the "end all be all" method of loading your mags. Without testing it is all just conjecture.

So to sum it up, I get where you're all coming from, and I don't disagree with any of you really. I just don't think that it should be instantly discounted either.

Feel free to continue telling me what a bad idea it is, I'm still going to the range this weekend with a pile of mags loaded in this fashion to see for myself if I think it's tactically viable. I've never fired a +P HST so I don't know the difference in felt recoil between one and a regular HST so this could all be a moot point.

Forums are for sharing ideas... even silly ones... New ideas lead to different ways of thinking which lead to advancements in training and techniques. Less than 200 years ago, modern warfare consisted of people meeting each other head on, firing muskets into lines of soldiers and then ducking to reload.

OK, before I write a novel, I should just cut it off there. I concur that it's probably a bad idea, I just wanted to throw it out there... In the future we'll all have blinking LED low-ammo indicators on our weapons anyway.

[Psalms144.1]

Shao - you got some ammo you don't want to shoot/carry all day every day at a good price. You've come up with a novel way to use it. Rock on with your bad self and let us know what happens on the range.

To be perfectly honest, though, the only way to REALLY test if you can tell the difference is by a blind experiment. Have someone else load your magazines with random ammo, keeping track of which rounds are the +P. Shoot a standard timed drill (I like the Bill drill for this, or the FAST - anything that will keep you focusing on the target and gun handling, not on what ammo's in the chamber), and see if you can "call" the +Ps. If you can, consistently, then your idea might work, for you.

I'm with the majority in that, based on physiological changes beyond your control in an extreme stress situation, I really doubt you'll ever notice the difference in a gun fight.

Let us know how it goes!

[KTR03]

I don't think people are ragging on you. You have a novel idea, and ask for opinions, and got lots of responses... IF you don't mind, what do you do for a living? Lots of fist fights, and thousands of rounds of HST fired seems like a pretty exciting existence.

[Firefly]

OP, speaking for myself, I wasn't ragging. Just saying.

You have a lot of what I'll call "book ideas". It would sound interesting on paper. Seem moderately appealing in a theoretical sense to those unfamiliar with the rote practice, and seem innovative because nobody else ever brings it up. Sort of like your magazine light idea.

But when the rubber meets the road...no. It would be impractical.
And it is possible to be detached (I'm loathe to say "calm") in a long range rifle fight but if you're in a handgun something horrible has happened and being calm and cool just ain't gonna happen.
It is simply too unnatural and too high risk. Because if, God forbid, you are in a handgun fight and especially indoors or a vehicle then you are most likely going to get shot too. The better instructors will tell you that the worst fight you can be in is a pistol fight. That your chances for death and injury skyrocket. And a lot of life altering and life ending things occur at short distance and very fast.

Watch any dashcam footage on youtube. Hundreds to pick from.
I appreciate creativity and ideas but....no. Just, no. Sorry.
Not practical. Not feasible.

[Ranger325]

Not sure when the OP was a kid, but the tracer idea goes back to the VN era. In 1970, 5th SFGA published Detachment B52's Recon Tips of the Trade which included; "3. The last three rounds in each magazine should be tracer. This reminds the firer that he needs a loaded magazine." Joe Alderman was one of the Project Delta authors. FWIW