Review: Erasing Death

[WillBrink]

Just finished the book Easing Death by Dr. Sam Parnia. I read his last book "What Happens When We Die"* and enjoyed it. This book goes into more depth on the latest in resuscitation science (as that's his medical specialty) and the fact people are resuscitated from clinical death far past what could be achieved even a short time ago. He then covers various aspects of the possibility of continued consciousness after death, and additional aspects of the near death experience, which he calls the "actual death experience" as the people are often clinically dead for an extended period of time. It's not a page turner and a tad dry in spots, but worth a read if interested in the topic minus any religious/spiritual leanings but a more science/med look at the topic.

http://www.amazon.com/Erasing-Death-...rds=sam+parnia

* = Which I posted a review on M4C at the time

[SteyrAUG]

Interesting topic, but I think the experiences are just "whatever movie your brain plays for you" in order to protect you during death, a psychological equivalent of going into shock.

Basically your brain is like an oven. You cut off the electricity and it stops working but it may stay warm for some time, sometimes longer than you expect. The main difference is that it is unlikely that your brain will work again if you plug it back in a week later because of the damage done when it stops working.

I also don't think consciousness (aka heat) can exist after the brain (aka oven) has ceased function for extended periods. I wish I believed otherwise, it's kinda a downer.

[WillBrink]

Interesting topic, but I think the experiences are just "whatever movie your brain plays for you" in order to protect you during death, a psychological equivalent of going into shock.

Basically your brain is like an oven. You cut off the electricity and it stops working but it may stay warm for some time, sometimes longer than you expect. The main difference is that it is unlikely that your brain will work again if you plug it back in a week later because of the damage done when it stops working.

I also don't think consciousness (aka heat) can exist after the brain (aka oven) has ceased function for extended periods. I wish I believed otherwise, it's kinda a downer.

Dr. Parnia, who is very qualified to explore the matter, gives a number of reasons why that does not appear to add up. Obviously, some docs also agree with that assessment, but it's far from established and the evidence presented by Dr Parnia is compelling that's not the case. Or, not the case as current technology can test and some events too consistent and regular to simply dismiss as "tricks of the dying brain." If it's a topic of interest to you, I'd recommend giving it a read.

[SteyrAUG]

Dr. Parnia, who is very qualified to explore the matter, gives a number of reasons why that does not appear to add up. Obviously, some docs also agree with that assessment, but it's far from established and the evidence presented by Dr Parnia is compelling that's not the case. Or, not the case as current technology can test and some events too consistent and regular to simply dismiss as "tricks of the dying brain." If it's a topic of interest to you, I'd recommend giving it a read.

I don't think anyone has any real evidence either way. That is why I just offered my opinion and I suspect opinions tend to vary based upon personal beliefs. I'm glad they are doing work in this area, but it's a bit like studying the supermassive black hole at the center of our milky way galaxy. We know it is there...but that's about it. Nobody in the next 5 generations of humanity is likely to learn anything much more significant about it than what we know today. I suspect progress in this field of study will be about the same.

We would need a real breakthrough like thawing out a chryohead dude and having him explain what happened while he was offline.

[ABNAK]

I hope there's something afterwards; the thought of "nothingness" (although I guess you wouldn't know it) is depressing.

I'm not a religious person, and I suspect IF there is some existence after our bodies die it is something we cannot comprehend in our current dimensions of existence. i.e. it's nothing like the Bible/Torah/Koran/whatever tells us it is.

[WillBrink]

I don't think anyone has any real evidence either way. That is why I just offered my opinion and I suspect opinions tend to vary based upon personal beliefs. I'm glad they are doing work in this area, but it's a bit like studying the supermassive black hole at the center of our milky way galaxy. We know it is there...but that's about it. Nobody in the next 5 generations of humanity is likely to learn anything much more significant about it than what we know today. I suspect progress in this field of study will be about the same.

We would need a real breakthrough like thawing out a chryohead dude and having him explain what happened while he was offline.

And I'm trying to tell you there is, and the book is not just 200+ pages of hypothesis and rambling but the actual science as it exists, some of which is very compelling. Two, huge strides in neuro science is being made, and I'd expect some real "wow" moments to occur regarding the human brain, human consciousness, etc within our life time.

[Hmac]

Lots of studies on both sides of that coin...Sam Parnia's stuff is not necessarily representative of the mainstream thinking on NDE, nor is it any more compelling than published data with hypotheses on the other side. Interesting stuff, but not quite mainstream science. Most neuroscience journals won't publish stuff on near-death-experience. By way of perspective...about 4-8% of the population reports an NDE when queried. In at least one study, about 5-6% of the population reports being abducted by aliens at least once.

Having said that, I don't dispute that there is physiology that supports the possibility that random neuronal discharges in portions of a hypoxic brain may create a variety of sensations from tunnel of light to a variety of other hallucinatory phenomena.


.

[WillBrink]

Lots of studies on both sides of that coin...Sam Parnia's stuff is not necessarily representative of the mainstream thinking on NDE, nor is it any more compelling than published data with hypotheses on the other side. Interesting stuff, but not quite mainstream science. Most neuroscience journals won't publish stuff on near-death-experience. By way of perspective...about 4-8% of the population reports an NDE when queried. In at least one study, about 5-6% of the population reports being abducted by aliens at least once.

Having said that, I don't dispute that there is physiology that supports the possibility that random neuronal discharges in portions of a hypoxic brain may create a variety of sensations from tunnel of light to a variety of other hallucinatory phenomena.


.

100% true. He's done more research into the topic of anyone I'm aware of by a long shot, but his position on it not representative of the mainstream thinking on NDE. However, due to his systematic approach to the topic, he's gaining acceptance in that he feels it's a topic that needs to be adequately investigated, regardless of the cause: simply the response to hypoxia or something "else." His discussion as to why he does not feel it's simply hallucinatory phenomena of a dying brain is however compelling but stops well short of any claims of proof per se, of causes one way or another.

There's a number of well respected people, with expertise to have an educated opinion on the topic - such as Stephan A. Mayer, M.D., professor of neurology and neurological surgery at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons and others - who have stated they feel Parnia's work important of of value, regardless of the cause of NDE's which Parnia does not claim is caused by consciousness outside the human brain. He does how ever give the evidence to that possibility as well as others.

[Abraham]

I'm going to read the book to see if it'll change my current thought about death.

That is: We essentially go back to where we came from i.e., nothingness.

I'm not at all religious (obviously) or think our being alive having any kind of meaning whatsoever, and I'm fine with that.

I'm glad I got to go on this ride, but when it's over, man, it's over...no great loss or tragedy.

Eventually, I'll simply become star dust which is what I was in the beginning.

[WillBrink]

I'm going to read the book to see if it'll change my current thought about death.

That is: We essentially go back to where we came from i.e., nothingness.

I'm not at all religious (obviously) or think our being alive having any kind of meaning whatsoever, and I'm fine with that.

I'm glad I got to go on this ride, but when it's over, man, it's over...no great loss or tragedy.

Eventually, I'll simply become star dust which is what I was in the beginning.

Excellent. I look forward to your review. I'm not sure if it's changed my view on death per se, but his prior book and this recent one, as well as hearing him interviewed on NPR, etc, has absolutely left me feeling current teck and knowledge not up to the task of explaining human consciousness, and how that relates to other issues. It's a topic covered many times over thousands of years, but usually in religious context, or philosophical context, or using pseudo science crystal wearing babble BS context, none of which really interests me being a science guy.... What he suggests is, there's likely going to be a new paradigm and even new science to actually answer the Q.

The part of the discussion in the book I found most interesting was the issue of whether human consciousness is simply a product of the brain itself or if the brain is simply the conduit or vessel for human consciousness. He presents some very interesting evidence for both and that Q/issue far from actually answered by science at this time.