Using a DA/SA pistol

[T2C]

If the pistol will allow you to safely carry it in single action mode, that is the way I would suggest you carry it in most circumstances. If it is a traditional DA/SA weapon, I recommend shooting it like you would a revolver.

[26 Inf]

I'm new to the world of using DA/SA guns, I've only ever used SAO or striker fired handguns. I have to stress that I have zero experience in using DA/SA guns; I just recently picked up a P-07, and was considering giving it's DA feature a go. So please forgive me if the question sounds stupid.

I realize that DA to SA transitions require practice. Here's my question. You train to draw the gun, fire in DA, then go to SA. Simple enough. But I assume that the gun isn't decocked every single time there's a pause; it is only decocked when the gun is returned to the holster (please correct me if I'm wrong). So let's say that the gun is in SA, and you have to engage again. If one's muscle memory is tuned to a DA first shot, then wouldn't a shot in SA throw one's aim off? Such as expecting a heavy trigger pull, but it's light and short instead? Is this an issue anyone has run into before?

DA/SA - you are already used to firing a striker fired handgun, those all have some degree of reset, so you should be good to go on the SA, correct? The only 'different' thing you really need to train is the difference between the first and second shot, and really the biggest problem that most shooters will have is a tendency to want to stage the DA pull. Don't....do....that! Focus on a good smooth stroke. With a DA/SA the DA shot is your money shot, it has to be fast and accurate, it should be the fight stopper.

Dry fire. Don't change finger placement, trigger on the distal side of the crease of the last joint of your trigger finger - too far in, past the crease, and you'll more than likely pull the rounds more or less straight to the right (right handed shooter); too far out and you will more than likely push the rounds to the left. Because of the longer, heavier, trigger pull, you may have more tendency to 'milk' the grip by squeezing with the other three fingers, watch that during dry fire. If I'm watching you dry fire, I watch the hammer, it should move back at the same speed until it flips forward - no pause, no variation in speed. You can do the 'put the dime or penny on the slide' thing, but, really, just watch your sights.

IMO, until you get the DA stoke down, don't worry about the transition to the SA shot, back in the 80's when we were teaching auto transition courses, this, the transition to the SA shot, was the biggest deal because all of our shooters already were familiar with the DA revolver; in the case of going from SA or striker fired auto pistol, the opposite is true. Dry fire until you are incapable of anything but a smooth DA stroke. Then start dry firing focusing on contacting the trigger and beginning the DA stroke as you press out to full extension - remember, the first shot is the money shot.

When you feel comfy with that, a several session process, find a safe place, go through your dry-fire prep protocol, then sit your butt down and hold the pistol in the strong hand, dry-fire the DA stroke, pin the finger to the rear and reset as you cycle the pistol with the support hand, then press through the SA stroke. On most DA/SA autos you'll be able to repeat the drill with out cycling and decocking to get another DA pull, so it is a quick evolution. Start slow and then speed up. I try to go just to the reset, but there are valid concerns that cutting it this fine may on occasion lead a shooter to not hit the reset.

Now start serious live fire.

Some mistakes that I see folks making in manipulation - one of the biggest, decocking the danged thing before the fight is for sure over, don't get in a hurry to decock - if another shot is needed make sure it is a SA press - I would suggest - follow the threat down, finger on the trigger with the trigger reset, ensure the person is no longer a threat, finger off the trigger as you widen your vision to the front, then decock as you do the full area scan. Another biggie on weapons with safeties (versus decockers) is decocking the weapon and not sweeping the safety up into the disengaged position - the DA pull is your safety. Some folks also want to decock before reloading????? or after reloading????? Don't.....do....that!!!

[Mysteryman]

Hopefully you feel better now.

All pistols, regardless of design, are simple devices that don't require much thought......I can understand it being hard for some people however.

Why complicate the operation with extra controls?? I agree that the operation of handguns isn't the most difficult of tasks, but again, why add more controls and steps then are necessary? The more possibilities you add to a situation, the longer it takes for your brain to decide on which course of action is correct(look up Hick's law). Minimize your manual of arms and minimize your potential for making the wrong choice. All while maximizing your ability to focus on what is important, making hits.

While there are pieces of technical merit in you post, you're just another person who has an opinion that they try to sell as fact.

Please indicate where I am posting opinion over fact???

MM

[HKGuns]

Why complicate the operation with extra controls?? I agree that the operation of handguns isn't the most difficult of tasks, but again, why add more controls and steps then are necessary? The more possibilities you add to a situation, the longer it takes for your brain to decide on which course of action is correct(look up Hick's law). Minimize your manual of arms and minimize your potential for making the wrong choice. All while maximizing your ability to focus on what is important, making hits.



Please indicate where I am posting opinion over fact???

MM

I guess my point is that if you aren't trained to remain calm enough to flick off a safety or manage a DA to SA pull transition, you aren't going to hit squat to begin with.

Make sense now?

[echo5whiskey]

I guess my point is that if you aren't trained to remain calm enough to flick off a safety or manage a DA to SA pull transition, you aren't going to hit squat to begin with.

Make sense now?

This.

Why complicate the operation with extra controls?? I agree that the operation of handguns isn't the most difficult of tasks, but again, why add more controls and steps then are necessary? The more possibilities you add to a situation, the longer it takes for your brain to decide on which course of action is correct(look up Hick's law). Minimize your manual of arms and minimize your potential for making the wrong choice. All while maximizing your ability to focus on what is important, making hits.

MM

Hick's Law deals with cognitive choices. Proper training moves beyond cognitive skills into the subconscious (aka "muscle memory"). If you train correctly, you don't have to make a choice because the action is automatic. If you train with a specific gun and practice with that specific gun, you will perform the way you practice. If you practice to flip off the safety every time you reactively un-holster, you will eventually not have to think about flipping off the safety.

Training is nothing more than creating habits. You don't choose to perform a habit, you just do it because you always do. (look up classical conditioning; i.e. Pavlov's dog experiment)

[Ron3]

If you use the gun enough you'll learn it.

I grew up with revolvers, then DA/SA pistols, then came the striker fired guns. (Didn't spend too much time with 1911's/SA guns)

Learn the revolver you'll appreciate the DA/SA. Learn that and you'll appreciate the striker-fired pistols. Shoot them all enough and you can stay proficient with all of them.

I like the extra margin of safety that comes with the DA first trigger pull. The problem is I don't like the DA/SA guns available. I don't like manual safeties and I don't like slide mounted decockers. (sorry Beretta, Ruger, others..) The best pistols I've found that have a frame-mounted decock-only lever and DA/SA are the Sigs.

However I prefer Glock magazines, simplicity, and lightness so...I carry a glock 19. But If I really wanted the DA/SA type I'd go with Sig.

[MM OneSix]

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