Actual use of unconventional shooting positions

[The_Swede]

There are a lot of unconventional shooting positions out there with goofy names such as "brokeback mountain prone", "urban prone" etc. There are credible instructors who teach the value of them and there are credible instructors who claim it's BS with no real-world use.

My questions: Have you used any unconventional shooting position working as soldier/LEO? Used them at a match (the only place where I personally have seen them being used)? Is there any recording of persons/units using these shooting positions? Do they have a real-world use or are they just a fun way to mix up your range training and work on fundamentals under non-optimal conditions?

[T2C]

The "urban prone" position you mentioned was taught to me as rollover prone in 1988. It would be suitable for returning fire from underneath a vehicle like a SUV or pickup truck. We trained on it as LEO, but I have no recollection of the technique being used in an actual firefight in our area.

I believe the idea is to get people to think outside the box when training for a fight.

[USMC_Anglico]

short answer, Yes.

Long answer is think about modern combat, specifically urban fighting. Alternative positions were developed and refined over the decade plus of urban combat the US has been involved with.

For LEO, I know that LA SWAT engaged the hollywood bank robbers under vics using alt positions, it was captured on video.

If you ever train FoF around vehicles you will see the direct application of these techniques.

[Surf]

Things get renamed and rebranded constantly. As mentioned rollover prone has been used for a long time. Rollover prone was a variant where we went from a simple roll onto the bicep or full sideways. Now it is seems to be broken into rollover as a bicep side roll and "urban prone" as a full sideways position. Pretty much was all rollover prone to us a long time ago and we altered that position to suit the situation. Also "brokeback mountain" has been a position that has also been around for a long time. We actually call it "doggy style" and were using this term long before the movie Brokeback Mountain came out.

As for alternate shooting positions, I do think they are important and have found the need to utilize them in my career. We teach a base of positions and generally once a shooter understands certain positions they are more easily able to adapt to something new and improvise a position much more quickly and efficiently as the situation dictates, on the fly. A good example is the VTAC barricade. Watch someone with no experience in alternate positions shoot from it. Then watch someone who has some training, even someone who has never shot from the VTAC but understands alternate positions. I think this is why the VTAC barricade has become such a staple for training. 20 years ago we just set up all kinds of positions down a line with benches, tables, chairs, boxes, whatever to create varying positions. About a decade ago, we got a bit advanced with step barricades with simple cutouts, whereas the VTAC barricade was a good refinement and as an example simplifies things in one shooting position, or can be used in multiples as well.

We always hope to have a nice shooting position / platform but in reality it is generally something not so great. Being trained and practiced is a definite advantage. The worst time to find that you wish you had covered the topic is when you actually need it and your life is on the line.

[SoTex1]

Yes. Initial patrol response to a BP is a great example. Once an officer has a grasp of what bullets do to vehicles, as well as some practice running the VTAC 9 hole, you will see them start using these unconventional positions and quit leaning across cars. I wouldn't say so much one particular odd position, but more a good grasp on the concept of shooting from unusual positions with accuracy is what's important here.

[cpd2110]

A guy in my area used brokeback prone (with rifle) to shoot a guy in the leg in an extended gunfight. Bad guy was a moving target around a vehicle with an AK style weapon. We do the same as Surf in that we teach a baseline set of positions. We then go into a number of unconventional positions with both rifle/pistol. The key we feel is to get guys thinking outside the box. I've trained with VTAC and one of the biggest lessons was the crazy positions he got us into. It increased my confidence knowing I could hit steel at 100yds in unconventional positions and I have seen the same results with the guys I train.