Haley's Videos no loner available on Panteao

[Wake27]

In stock and on sale at Brownells as of right now.

You're the man, thanks.

[comprido]

From the Panteao website:

" When Travis Haley publicly stated that the Magpul videos he previously “created, produced, and directed” should not be purchased from Magpul because they are now 7 years old, that did not sit well with us. The videos Panteao Productions filmed with Travis were released in 2011. At what point would those videos be deemed outdated? Should every instructional video come with an expiration date? We don’t think so.

It’s the position of Panteao Productions that training videos do not come with an expiration date. While doctrine may change over the years and techniques may fall out of fashion, it’s still important to document an instructor’s course and training techniques. It’s a piece of history, giving us insight to what was taught at the time and why. In addition, the fundamentals are always the core of any firearms instruction. Unless humans sprout a third arm or leg, the fundamentals will remain the same.

The decision was made to discontinue the Travis Haley videos and remove them from the Panteao website. They were pulled on January 1, 2015. We wish Travis well in his ventures."

Thanks, I had not seen that.

Did a little googling:
From Haley's Facebook feed...

I've had a lot of people ask me about this: Be careful buying training DVDs that 7 yrs old. If you know how adaptive we are in our training programs then you get my point... If you don't then here: DO NOT BUY THESE. "yes this message is approved by Travis Haley."


Later he clarifies...

Mostly because I created, produced and directed these. So I know the material very well. There is a lot that I would take back and add which we do now in our programs. The Panteao videos are a massive improvement as it pertains to material and even those are becoming older and need to be updated. So no it wont get you killed, but there is better material since then. http://haleystrategic.com/store/dvd.php


I guess this was a big deal for a day or two.

[IZinterrogator]

Personally, I think Haley wasn't as clear as he should have been in the first place and Panteao blew it out of proportion. IMHO, TTPs do improve with time, but training on outdated TTPs is better than not training at all. I have both Haley's Magpul videos and Panteao videos and I will continue to study them both to find the stuff in there that works for me.

[comprido]

Personally, I think Haley wasn't as clear as he should have been in the first place and Panteao blew it out of proportion.

Agreed. What if Haley had said, "I have newer DVDs that reflect my current teaching and evolution. I recommend you purchase those newer DVDs". Would anyone have faulted him for saying it that way? (And that's how I interpret his remarks). Panteao have quite a few DVDs that are getting on in years. Perhaps they are a bit defensive.

[Turnkey11]

I think he's been out of the Marines too long.

[markm]

Instructor Drama. They (instructors) are, for the most part, worse than High school chicks.

[ggammell]

Notice he's saying not to buy the magpul discs, from the company name didn't have a great departure from.

[VIP3R 237]

Instructor Drama. They (instructors) are, for the most part, worse than High school chicks.

Notice he's saying not to buy the magpul discs, from the company name didn't have a great departure from.

Exactly. As soon as he left Magpul Haley bashed anything and everything that Magpul was involved in. All of a sudden the DVD's, ACR, PMAGS, MS2 slings, etc. were junk.

[Turnkey11]

Exactly. As soon as he left Magpul Haley bashed anything and everything that Magpul was involved in. All of a sudden the DVD's, ACR, PMAGS, MS2 slings, etc. were junk.

The bad lever and MS2 sling were his creations, I had prototypes of both at one time before magpul when he was Simply Dynamic Inc in Hawaii.

[comprido]

Notice he's saying not to buy the magpul discs, from the company name didn't have a great departure from.

Exactly. As soon as he left Magpul Haley bashed anything and everything that Magpul was involved in. All of a sudden the DVD's, ACR, PMAGS, MS2 slings, etc. were junk.

I didn't keep track of how he bashed Magpul when he left. Maybe it wasn't classy. (Not doubting you, just saying I don't know what was said.)

However, I have zero problem with him saying don't buy the Magpul videos because he has a newer, better product out there. What do you expect? Would Panteao want him to say "yeah, buy either series. It's 80% the same material anyway"?

Of course not.

When Lee Iacocca left Ford and went to Chrysler, do you think he told people to buy the 7 year old Fords that he designed? Hell, no. He said "Buy a Chrysler. It's my best work to date."

(Btw, I've obtained a copy of the Haley Panteao video. I don't like it. While I respect Haley, I don't like his teaching style or his use of pseudo-scientific buzzwords. I think he makes things more complicated than they need to be, IMHO. Two thumbs down.)