Movement in open area while engaged

[Ron3]

Was talking tactics with a cop buddy the other day.

We were discussing various scenario's (especially active shooter) and in one scenario he described a certain area where a shooter could get cover and fire. So the shooter would have cover and the Officer would not.

Were talking within 35 yds, pistols, all drawn. We won't get into down range concerns for this either to keep the premise simple.

He said he'd walk towards the shooter while firing. I think that would generally not be the thing to do. He said he was counting the intimidation effect. I explained I understand the intimidation but that would not be the time to move towards someone firing at him.

I suggested holding position and firing (easier to shoot accurately when not moving), running to cover/concealment, running to flank the shooter, or walk to the shooters flank while returning fire.

2nd scenario: Inside 35 yds, BG and Officer have pistols, no cover or concealment nearby. BG is more or less stationary and firing. Whats the best course of action for the Officer?

My buddy still says advance while firing. I don't think thats wrong at all, but In my opinion a lateral, even circling movement would be better. No harder to shoot while walking forward or to the side, and it forces the BG to adjust to you and attempt to track you.

What say you guys?

[Koshinn]

I'm not police, but here are things to consider:

Your accuracy is negatively impacted by moving while shooting, while the BG's is not.
You do not have cover nor concealment, the BG does.

This seems like a really good way to get shot while not landing any hits on the BG.

[ryantx23]

Was talking tactics with a cop buddy the other day.

We were discussing various scenario's (especially active shooter) and in one scenario he described a certain area where a shooter could get cover and fire. So the shooter would have cover and the Officer would not.

Were talking within 35 yds, pistols, all drawn. We won't get into down range concerns for this either to keep the premise simple.

He said he'd walk towards the shooter while firing. I think that would generally not be the thing to do. He said he was counting the intimidation effect. I explained I understand the intimidation but that would not be the time to move towards someone firing at him.

I suggested holding position and firing (easier to shoot accurately when not moving), running to cover/concealment, running to flank the shooter, or walk to the shooters flank while returning fire.

2nd scenario: Inside 35 yds, BG and Officer have pistols, no cover or concealment nearby. BG is more or less stationary and firing. Whats the best course of action for the Officer?

My buddy still says advance while firing. I don't think thats wrong at all, but In my opinion a lateral, even circling movement would be better. No harder to shoot while walking forward or to the side, and it forces the BG to adjust to you and attempt to track you.

What say you guys?

Ron,

Your buddy's tactics suck. Plain and simple and that's coming from a LEO with a good amount of tactical training and quite a few shooting schools under his belt. Try asking one of the SME's here that are real deal gunfighters and see what they have to say? Koshinn speaks the truth. I understand where he is going with his thought process, but he would likely get the air let out of him pretty quick if his adversary had any skill whatsoever.

[crazymjb]

Supress and break contact. If they are taking fire (even if its not accurate) and you are moving it should reduce your chances of getting shot until you can gain an advantagous position and re-engage. Thats my initial reaction anyway. There may be some circumstances where advancing is an option but from the general idea I got from your scenario gtfo while supressing seems the best option. Interested in what others have to say.

Disclaimer: not LEO and my only training as a grunt was assault into an ambush, but thats a different ball game.

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

[Wake27]

I would absolutely not want to count on "intimidation." Depending on the situation, maybe I'd fire a quick shot or two if he's moving into position and then haul ass to cover. But probably just haul ass in that situation. For number two, I'd rather stay still and focus on shooting him as opposed to focusing on making him miss me.

[echo5whiskey]

Supress and break contact. If they are taking fire (even if its not accurate) and you are moving it should reduce your chances of getting shot until you can gain an advantagous position and re-engage. Thats my initial reaction anyway. There may be some circumstances where advancing is an option but from the general idea I got from your scenario gtfo while supressing seems the best option. Interested in what others have to say.

Disclaimer: not LEO and my only training as a grunt was assault into an ambush, but thats a different ball game.

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

To add, you have to understand that the BG has to shoot the same distance you do. If you make that distance shorter, you not only increase your accuracy, but you increase his as well. Breaking contact does not necessarily mean running straight back either. You can break contact with a lateral movement so long as it will serve a purpose; e.g. cover.

[crazymjb]

To add, you have to understand that the BG has to shoot the same distance you do. If you make that distance shorter, you not only increase your accuracy, but you increase his as well. Breaking contact does not necessarily mean running straight back either. You can break contact with a lateral movement so long as it will serve a purpose; e.g. cover.

Agreed. Im also assuming there is no greater mission here other than survival. If its an active shooter and the public is still around then the rewards for the risks you take go up. For pure survival.... dont advance on a target without support. There is a reason for "buddy rushing" with a buddy.

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

[skydivr]

As a non-professional IMHO if the BG is targeting/focusing on the LEO, then he's not shooting innocents, and therefore no need to get into a hurry. Quickly see Cover, Wait it out for help.

The only scenario that the above makes sense to me is when the BG is actively targeting innocents, and this is a last-resort action. And hitting a running, dodging target is NOT easy; moving sideways presents a smaller target than moving directly at you....

[Alpha-17]

I'm just a dumb former Infantryman here, but here's my take:

We were discussing various scenario's (especially active shooter) and in one scenario he described a certain area where a shooter could get cover and fire. So the shooter would have cover and the Officer would not.
Were talking within 35 yds, pistols, all drawn. We won't get into down range concerns for this either to keep the premise simple.

He said he'd walk towards the shooter while firing. I think that would generally not be the thing to do. He said he was counting the intimidation effect. I explained I understand the intimidation but that would not be the time to move towards someone firing at him.

I suggested holding position and firing (easier to shoot accurately when not moving), running to cover/concealment, running to flank the shooter, or walk to the shooters flank while returning fire.

Going prone and returning fire wouldn't be a bad option, but I can see trying to lay down some suppressing fire with a few shots at the BG, and then booking it to cover. Walking, even at a "range walk" towards the bad guy while shooting is a great way to get doubled tapped.

2nd scenario: Inside 35 yds, BG and Officer have pistols, no cover or concealment nearby. BG is more or less stationary and firing. Whats the best course of action for the Officer?

My buddy still says advance while firing. I don't think thats wrong at all, but In my opinion a lateral, even circling movement would be better. No harder to shoot while walking forward or to the side, and it forces the BG to adjust to you and attempt to track you.

What say you guys?

No cover at all? With a rifle, I'd say hit the deck, and dump your magazine on the BG. Within 35 yards, it shouldn't be too hard to get a couple hits. Standing will almost certainly get yourself hit. Moving could help, but still, you're an awfully big target within 35 yards. Going prone would reduce your profile, and hopefully give you the chance to take out the BG before he does the same to you.

[GunBugBit]

Walking, even at a "range walk" towards the bad guy while shooting is a great way to get doubled tapped.

That's what I was thinking. Not a smart tactic at all.

Walking straight toward the bad guy isn't effectively giving him a moving target, just one that's getting closer. Intimidation? Hey, if the guy is already shooting at a cop, I doubt if he's very intimidated.