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Thread: Specific question about a defensive position with vehicles

  1. #1
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    Specific question about a defensive position with vehicles

    My company went on an FTX a while ago and every time I think back to it, it bothers me because I still don't know what the best course was in the following situation: I'm part of a maintenance company so we need a big open area to work, not some patrol base in the worst place imaginable. There were only about 50 people but we took something like 8 vehicles, most with 50 cals. As we pulled in, a circular perimeter was set up in the middle of the flat, open ground with soldiers in the prone placed in between vehicles. Most of this perimeter had anywhere from 20-50 meters of open ground before thick, high (elephant?) grass and then trees. I was talking to my commander when I looked around and saw this and it made me nervous. Every guy we had pulling security was in the middle of open ground with no cover or concealment. I rounded up two of my stronger NCOs and we started discussing. My idea was to push them into the wood line and keep the trucks where they were. None of us were sure which idea was the lesser of two evils - have them exposed but have complete command and control and visibility, or give them cover and concealment but increase the risk for potential fratricide. A solid brief to the gunners of limits of engagement because of friendlies at their front didn't leave any of us with a good feeling. I think it could've worked well with some units, but not mine. All that being said, we normally would start digging immediately (yay) so it wouldn't be a problem once the holes were dug, but I just don't like not having a better answer. Possibly the better idea, that came to me afterwards, would have been to just have a guy in the prone behind the truck, on either side. The big ass tires would have been better than nothing, but those would have been very large sectors. So, what ideas do you guys have? I doubt the answer is really that hard - but I don't like any of the few options I've come up with. I will say they all have to be better than the first time I was out there though. It was with a different group, and they pushed the trucks right up into the brush. There was absolutely zero standoff for just about every single mounted weapon and one guy thought our security should be sitting in the driver and passenger seats for the whole night, because that would apparently allow them to see and give them protection. I asked how they were going to secure anything, not to mention fight from that position, but he didn't really answer.

    Just to give you an idea of what the place looks like. Ignore the fact that I took a picture of a rainbow...



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    Last edited by Wake27; 04-16-15 at 04:07.
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  2. #2
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    You need to develop your NCOs and start grooming yourself and other leaders to oversee and supervise without direct line of sight. Pushing them into the woodline shouldn't put your element at a higher risk for blue on blue. Its the most advantageous point of control for your security element in many ways.
    Team Medic, Task Force Zangaro
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  3. #3
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    Work toward getting everyone on board with actually using the troop leading procedures - they work.

    I was a infantry guy, so I first flashed to 'occupy a patrol base' - here is a good link for the task - http://www.mc.edu/rotc/files/8013/14...Operations.pdf

    To my way of thinking your command should have had security out before the main force rolled in - why would you park a bunch of vehicles in the middle of that area without securing the treeline with at least op's and lp's?

    I spent a whole bunch of my reserve time as the platoon sergeant of a stand alone pathfinder platoon - all 22 of us. The better we got at the BASIC stuff, the better we got at the pathfinder stuff.

    You will never go wrong with becoming practiced and proficient at executing basic soldiering tasks - the knowledge and skills gained give everyone a natural springboard to critical thinking in the execution of more complex tasks.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOW_0331 View Post
    You need to develop your NCOs and start grooming yourself and other leaders to oversee and supervise without direct line of sight. Pushing them into the woodline shouldn't put your element at a higher risk for blue on blue. Its the most advantageous point of control for your security element in many ways.
    Yeah I know that is the right answer and it absolutely needs to be done. I guess I was just looking for more of a quick fix in the meantime. I realize the dangers of a quick fix, but we only have so much to work with.

    Quote Originally Posted by 26 Inf View Post
    Work toward getting everyone on board with actually using the troop leading procedures - they work.

    I was a infantry guy, so I first flashed to 'occupy a patrol base' - here is a good link for the task - http://www.mc.edu/rotc/files/8013/14...Operations.pdf

    To my way of thinking your command should have had security out before the main force rolled in - why would you park a bunch of vehicles in the middle of that area without securing the treeline with at least op's and lp's?
    We definitely should have...
    Sic semper tyrannis.

  5. #5
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    I might be a little biased, but if you want a good read on basic infantry tactics (as 26 Inf said), look up MCWP 3-11 series. It's a pretty good base of knowledge that you can work off of and adapt to suit your own needs.

    Also, since you seem to work a lot with MMGs/HMGs, also try 3-15 (The Machine Gunner's Bible that SOW 0331 [I think] alluded to in another thread the three of us posted on.
    Last edited by echo5whiskey; 04-18-15 at 22:03. Reason: I forgot to add part of what I wanted to say.
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

    "It is better to be thought a fool and to remain silent, than to speak and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln

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