Concealed Carry in the Era of Terror

**skydivr** · 04-18-15, 12:59

All I can think of when reading this article and comments is EVERY SINGLE SLASHER MOVIE I've ever seen

**bjxds** · 04-18-15, 21:23

Originally Posted by SOW_0331

I'm not doubting that a good DA could convince a jury that it was necessary to engage a downed bad guy to prevent further threat. Its not a guarantee but given the circumstances I would imagine that would be an unwise and unpopular course of action to pursue criminal charges .

What I have a problem with in this piece is the entire concept that anyone carrying a CCW is in any way capable of, qualified to, or responsible to run around conducting one man ambush missions, hunt down other threats, and anything else. Oh sure, I'm gonna kill a bad dude and take his AK, and the responding LE will just know that I'm the GOOD guy with an AK walking around. I should probably travel with a day pack of medical gear, a water purifier so me and the band of survivers can drink from puddles in the parking garage, and a primary and secondary compass to land nav out way out of whatever building were in. And finally someone else agrees that it's a scary world, an Era of Terrah and I'm not crazy for wearing my size 46x30 multicam tactical pants and plate carrier everywhere I go.

My take on this article I this:

Thankfully this type of event has been rare, but more likely to occur now than it has in the past. If it happened and you were present, what would you do. Running around with an AK when the uniforms arrive may not be a good idea, but what about before they get there. There are so many possible scenarios in this situation. Also there are not really any legal cases to base any decisions upon that I am aware. I am afraid the way things are going the may be more events like this in the future. When I was growing up I never heard of any school, mall, or movie theater shootings, and they were all nut jobs, not terrorists.

As far as actions/tactics used during this type of event, each individual will have to decide what they are willing to do when the SHTF. Hopefully they will be prepared. I hope I am never involved, but I am not going to think it can never happen.

**echo5whiskey** · 04-18-15, 21:43

While this certainly is a possibility, I would also take into account that the BGs probably already know that there are a lot of gun-toting free people in this country; and I'm sure that would influence their decision-making process. If you think about what terrorism hopes to accomplish, I doubt we would be close to the top of their list for this kind of attack. They want mass casualties and chaos. If they realize that there may be just as many armed civilians in their target as their own numbers, I'm not sure they would want to risk it.

That being said, I do realize that there are areas in this country that would be in that same boat as those other places (unarmed civilians). That article is pretty much pointless for those folks because they wouldn't have a gun to begin with. The only ones who would, would probably be off-duty LEOs who are most likely aware of what the article attempts to point out.

By no means am I saying that this scenario can't happen here, just that the dynamics in this country are different than in other countries. In the African countries, while their police and military might have decent training, I think they are easily sub-par compared to how we would behave in the US. Again, I'm pretty sure they would want to inflict the most damage they can, so I think we have a far greater chance of more Boston style attacks (regardless of whether or not that was linked to terrorism)

As for the legal vs. tactical ideas that the article lists, I think the best way to play that hand is with some common sense. If put in that situation, you will have to decide what you are willing to sacrifice for what ends. Every situation will dictate its own solution(s). No matter what you do, it's a lose-lose situation in some way.

All of this IMHO, of course.

**MegademiC** · 04-18-15, 22:35

I remember reading about a terrorist attack in Israel where some guys got a machine gun and attempted to mow down civillians. Iirc an IDF member(s) killed 2 and detained 1 who was surprised at the response and complained that it wasn't fair they were armed. A lot of these evil guys are smart, but a small convert group might do something stupid.

This story also shows the mentality that's out there.

**echo5whiskey** · 04-19-15, 00:28

Originally Posted by MegademiC

I remember reading about a terrorist attack in Israel where some guys got a machine gun and attempted to mow down civillians. Iirc an IDF member(s) killed 2 and detained 1 who was surprised at the response and complained that it wasn't fair they were armed. A lot of these evil guys are smart, but a small convert group might do something stupid.

This story also shows the mentality that's out there.

Absolutely agreed that it's out there. Also, consider that the attack you mentioned happened in Israel. Of every country in the world, they probably suffer from the most terrorism. Like I said, I'm not at all negating the need to prepare for this. To happen here, I think it would be played out by some small domestic group/individual (insert "dumb" here) [possibly] inspired, not necessarily linked to a foreign terrorist group. ...but to hype it up to the extent that the article did seems a bit extreme to me.

I will say that I fully agree with getting the best and most training that you can if you are going to own firearms for defense or EDC...but that's a different soap box.

**Voodoo_Man** · 04-19-15, 08:48

Originally Posted by echo5whiskey

Absolutely agreed that it's out there. Also, consider that the attack you mentioned happened in Israel. Of every country in the world, they probably suffer from the most terrorism. Like I said, I'm not at all negating the need to prepare for this. To happen here, I think it would be played out by some small domestic group/individual (insert "dumb" here) [possibly] inspired, not necessarily linked to a foreign terrorist group. ...but to hype it up to the extent that the article did seems a bit extreme to me.

I will say that I fully agree with getting the best and most training that you can if you are going to own firearms for defense or EDC...but that's a different soap box.

I recently sat in an EOD unit's (read bomb unit) debrief for an upcoming major event in the US. The commander stated that they are expecting in the area of 5+ million people to show up for this event and every single person he spoke with in every alphabet soup agency he knew of told him that they should prepare for a terrorist (or type) attack. Not possibly, not maybe, not should be prepared, none of that, it will happen, it is expected to happen.

The only reason the US has not seen more such attacks as have been seen in other places in the world (like benghazi, mumbai, etc) is because of the extreme stupidity of the would-be perpetrators. Our style of life and system of safety in this country are pretty high by default, we forget exactly how much effort is put into maintaining a safety standard, especially by agencies working in the background, out of sight and headlines.

I read the article as a "wake up call" to those who would otherwise believe they are capable of getting in the fight and stopping something like this....with their Nano 9mm or 5 shot 642.

**T2C** · 04-19-15, 10:03

Some of the information in the article made me cringe. Apparently, the author of the article did not confer with a criminal defense attorney about the content of his material.

The concept of what force you can and cannot use is simple. If LEO would not be justified in firing in a particular situation, it's safe to say a civilian would not be justified. You should have a plan to restrain the hands of an active shooter after they are downed. Anyone who thinks LEO in CONUS are trained to fire security shots when passing an active shooter they downed are living in an internet/videogame world.

You may be able to stop an attacker from inflicting more casualties by engaging them with your compact self defense pistol, which is admirable. When you train for such an incident, do not forget that engaging an active shooter is not without a great deal of risk. In addition to the threat presented by the active shooter(s), if you do everything right you may get shot by another CCW holder or an armed security guard.

**Arctic1** · 04-19-15, 10:27

but as the saying goes, the best laid plans are thrown out with the first punch.

Not really a very good saying.

**Arctic1** · 04-19-15, 10:27

Originally Posted by Voodoo_Man

re; dead-checking.

Just because someone is on the ground and appears to be out of action does not, in any way, mean that they are.

Especially if are still armed.

True, but the correct course of action is not to "dead check" them by shooting them in the head.