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Thread: Origin of the Government Profile Barrel

  1. #1
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    Origin of the Government Profile Barrel

    I hope I am posting this in the right subforum. I found this interesting. It also confirmed my disdain for the government profile.

    https://www.everydaymarksman.co/equi...rofile-barrel/

    In light of The New Rifleman’s post about 20″ barrels, I felt this subject was fitting. One of the great mysteries of the firearms world is how the US military decided on the M16A2 barrel profile, or what has come to be known as the Government Profile. To most observers, this profile seems backwards. You would typically want more mass around the chamber and first several inches of the barrel to help with heat an stiffness. The government profile is thin in this area, but widens up at the muzzle.

    When the M16 was first adopted, and all the way through the years of the M16A1, it had what was called a standard profile. The standard profile of the day was what we now call a lightweight, or pencil, profile.

    Early-AR-barrel

    M16A1 barrel, photo from Weaponsman

    This barrel profile proved to be quite good for a general issue combat weapon. It was lightweight, so it would be less cumbersome when walking on long dismounted patrols. Combat weapons, generally, are carried a lot and fired relatively little. When fired, the barrel was still accurate enough for combat purposes, especially when compared to the competing AK-47 design of the time.

    During the product improvement efforts of the M16A2, the barrel profile was changed. The new barrel kept the same lightweight profile between the receiver and the front sight base, but increased the diameter of the barrel from the gas block forward. The general internet buzz is that this was done in response to GIs using their rifles as pry bars to open ammunition crates and rations, and bending the thinly profiled barrel in the process. Another line of thinking is that bayonet drills using the thin profile lead to a lot of bent barrels. To an outside observer, it would seem counterintuitive to only beef up the diameter of the barrel forward of the bayonet lug, since force would be applied to the entire length of the barrel and not just the forward end.

    BA20GVT-7

    The M16A2 “Government” Profile

    I came across a post concerning the M16A2 development effort:

    Since The M16A2 Product Improvement Program (1980-1983) was my program, this is the down & dirty on the barrel thickness issue.

    We (Marines) were replacing a lot of “bent” barrels that were determined to be “bent” because the Armorer’s Bore Drop Gauge would not freely pass through some barrels during Ordnance Inspections (LTI’s). So the Logisitcs people had “Barrels Bending” on their list of “M16A1″ things to “Improve” right after listing “Handguards Breaking.”

    We “experts” thought this bending was from rough handling like during bayonet drills, etc., as an absence of any mid-barrel handguard damage in these rifles made one assume the fulcrum of such bending was the bayonet lug. So we made that part of the barrel thicker because we did not want the excess weight of a full length heavy barrel.

    In testing using the bayonet lug as a fulcrum, and applying calibrated mechanical pressure to the muzzle, the new barrel was about 9 times more resistant to bend and take a set than an M16A1 profile. So we went with this “improvement.”

    However, soon after I started using a bore scope with a video recorder and monitor to inspect “bent” barrels. What I found was a mound of bullet jacket material at their gas ports. This build up was caused by a burr left from drilling/reaming the gas port. This was where the Armorer’s Drop Gauge was geting stuck. When we removed this “mound”, the barrels would all pass the Drop Gauge.

    We let Colt know what we had deduced, and that is one reason they kept models of “A2’s” in their line-up with A1 profile barrels. However, the A2 profile was already down the road for the US Military. So about the only advantage of the A2 profile was to give the rifle a little more muzzle hang. This was noted by most all the Operational Test participants, especially when they fired the standing/off-hand leg of our rifle qualification course.

    So my advice to military armorers is to never replace a bent barrel until you visually check the gas port, or at least scrub the hell out of the gas port area with a new bore brush and an electric drill. And thank God for chrome bores!

    Edit: Reader Daniel Watters informed me that the author of this passage, who goes by the name “coldblue” on AR15.com is, in fact LTC Dave Lutz (USMC-Ret), the former VP for Military Operations at Knight’s Armament Company. Given what I have come to know of the military acquisition and project management process, especially during the late 70’s and early 80’s (ever seen the movie The Pentagon Wars? Watch it!), it seems entirely plausible. The product improvement contract was already written and things were already being manufactured, it’s hard to stop that kind of institutional inertia and go back to the previous profile.

    Now, there isn’t that much of a weight difference between the two profiles. The A2 weighs about 4.8 ounces more. That weight is also all out front, which does provide a bit more hang when shooting from certain positions (as noted in the above quote). My estimation is that some groups of shooters will tout the benefits of this hang over the expense of 4.8 ounces. But, if I had my way, we would go back to the standard pencil profile for general issue. These rifles were never meant for extraordinarily high volumes of fire, that’s what light machine guns are for. Malfunctions and accuracy loss due to increased rates of fire beyond the designed specification are another issue entirely.
    Last edited by Benito; 06-03-19 at 11:19.

  2. #2
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    Those barrel straightness gauges are sketchy. I've seen a barrel "fail" the test... and we didn't pursue the issue any further anyway. Probably exactly the scenario mentioned above.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

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    Interesting that the Army (initially, at least) found very little to like about the A2.

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    From a Marine, who was a good friend of Major Wincensen, I got this reason the barrel is shaped that way is: because the originally proposed barrel was the full Colt H-Bar profile, to help with barrel heating and stiffness for accuracy. However, the Army stated flatly that the profile under the handguard will not be changed - reason: the M203 wouldn't fit*, but the Army recognized that the M16 barrel was perceived as "too thin" (note the "bending the barrel" myths**) and they felt the heavier visible portion of the barrel would improve perception.

    The big thing about the M16A2 is that it offers very little improvement, as far as the Army is concerned. Did the Army have a problem with the sights, no those changes were a benefit for the "A" Course type qualification the USMC used , not the pop-up target the Army used. Similarly, the barrel, and length of pull were beneficial mainly to the USMC, not the Army.


    ________________________________-
    *it could have if it was done like the new M4 barrel profile)

    ** If you do the math it takes over 1200 pounds on one end of a 20 inch barrel to exceed the yield stress of the steel and put a permanent bend in the barrel.
    Last edited by lysander; 05-03-15 at 10:26.

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    This is the original Army "we hate the A2" study:


    http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a168577.pdf

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    Very interesting -- thanks for posting. It turns out the rationale for the "gov't profile" barrel is even dumber than I thought! I previously had only heard about the lateral force tests where they figured out the A1 barrel bent under something like 400 ft./lbs. of lateral force applied to the muzzle, levering on the bayonet lug... in any case the only practical way of applying that much force being to mount a bayonet and literally using the rifle like a pry bar. Turns out maybe those "dumb GI's" weren't so much to blame, and it was actually the armorers and their goofy barrel straightness procedures all along! I wonder how many perfectly good barrels were scrapped due to this phenomenon, besides sticking us with the ridiculous "gov't profile" barrel.

    The A2 was quite the mixed bag of improvements and screw ups. The tougher (and less pinch-prone) furniture was probably the biggest single improvement. Those triangle handguards look cool, but they suck to use. changing it to a universal part instead of left/right specific was genius.

    The square front sight post I could take or leave. I know it's preferable from a target shooting standpoint, but I like how the A1 had nice 1 MOA clicks for both windage and elevation, just like the M14 and M1 before it. If they were going to add a new .750" gas block FSB to the parts inventory anyway, they could have at least changed the thread pitch to maintain the original click value with a 4-detent post, if they wanted a square one... or hell, if the Marines had to have 1/2 minute clicks on the rear sight for shooting their high power match, er, Qual. Course, at least make the front sight the same.

    Combat rifle sights need to be something the average 17 y.o. retard can figure out -- "here, each click on these sights moves your bullet 1" at 100 yards in the direction of the arrow" is a lot easier to digest than "here, this front sight moves the bullet 1 and a quarter inches per click, this windage knob moves it a half inch per click, and this elevation dial moves it one inch per click at a hundred yards." And then when you take those jacked up sights and put them on a carbine length sight radius, the numbers get even screwier. However, I have to say while the Army was quick to point out that click-adjustable elevation at the rear sight isn't strictly necessary on a combat rifle, it is hard not to call it an improvement.

    The nub on the pistol grip was "meh." The brass deflector was a good thing. The 1/7 twist was a very good thing, especially in hindsight with some of the ammo that is being used now, pushing the limits of 5.56 performance by using as long of a bullet that will load to mag length. However, introducing M855 while 1/12 twist rifles were still in service created a situation that had a lot of "derp" potential.

    Taking away the full auto trigger groups was unfortunately probably the right move, considering the Vietnam experience, but the burst groups were a total abortion with a cam that wouldn't re-set in the event you fired less than 3 rounds, not to mention a screwed up trigger squeeze and added complication. I think just going with a semi auto group would have been better... or better yet, why not just pin the selector like they did to solve the "spray and pray" issue on M-14s? It is odd how they went to so much effort to make the A2 the ultimate service rifle match gun for the Marines, and then gave it such a jacked up trigger.

    Speaking of triggers, I LOLed at the terrible trigger control of the "model" in the OP's video. Good info from Lutz though... I read his posts on TOS, and he is quite the wealth of knowledge. Wasn't he instrumental in the development of the Picatinny rail as well? That has to be the biggest single improvement to these rifles ever made.
    Last edited by henschman; 05-03-15 at 11:13.
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  7. #7
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    I appreciate the plug

    Slater, that DTIC link was quite interesting, thank you for sharing it. I find it interesting that many of the arguments the Army had against the A2 boiled down to the new M855 cartridge rather than the A2 rifle itself. My takeaway from reading that paper, as well as the other reading I've done, is that the Marine Corps continued to be heavily influenced by the competition realm (NRA high power, specifically). They wanted changes that fell in line with assisting riflemen to be more capable, such as heavier barrels and adjustable sights. The Army seemed more interested in a simple product improvement with regards to "soldier proofing" things like the ejection port door.
    "Man is still the first weapon of war" - Field Marshal Montgomery

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    Oh, and for shits and giggles, Dave Lutz had this to say about the report Slater posted:

    The report (done by a hired contractor) was a real hose job per the direction "we can't let the Marines make us look this bad...".
    To be brief:
    1. Some in the Army had real bad heartburn that we Marines were "doing their job" by fixing known A1 deficiencies.
    2. The test lot of M855 ammo used in the early 1980's tests was so defective prone it was thought to have been sabotaged in favor of Picatinny's M777 round which had the M855's (actually the Belgian SS109's) steel insert, but was stabilized by the A1's 1:12 twist, ergo, not barrel change required to conform with NATO.
    Canada came to the rescue as the first test was terminated because of the bad Lake City crap ammo and delivered 10's of thousands of Belgian SS109 which was used to repeat the testing and proved superior to the A1 testing in all respects. (Something ignored by these report writers.)
    3. If I wanted to take the time, I can counter every one of their listed deficiencies.

    Bottom line is, the Army did not agree with this report and adopted the A2 and it became the standard service rifle.
    Nuf said!

    And on the A2 grip, I actually built the first two (using Bondo) in my shop at Picatinny, and then Colt used them to prototype the production item.
    So now you know who to blame.

    The only part of the A2 program I regret was the longer buttstock, that ironically the Army's Human Engineering Lab endorsed; and of course the 3-round burst control. But adding the burst control "saved" a degree of full-auto capability that was planed to be eliminated as the SAW was going to replace the automatic rifle in the fire teams. And the provisioning of belted SAW ammo aboard amphibious shipping supporting 27 SAW's in each Marine Infantry Company was displacing tons of "rifle pack-out" 5.56 to the point that a 3-day supply was adversely effected. The SAW ammo pack-out of 800 rounds taking the same cubic space as 1680 rifle pack-out 5.56 in stripper clips and bandoliers.
    "Man is still the first weapon of war" - Field Marshal Montgomery

    The Everyday Marksman

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    Bottom line is, the Army did not agree with this report and adopted the A2 and it became the standard service rifle.
    Nuf said!
    A large part of why the Army adopted the M16A2 without much externally published fuss was they felt the M16A1 still had a bad reputation from early fielding in Vietnam (a myth that is still with us today)...

    Why the Army poo-pooed the USMC's efforts to improve the M16 was partly political as at the time the Marine Corps was increasingly developing equipment that the Army felt was under their purview, the M16 improvement, the SMAW development and few other things most of theses were done on a shoestring buget and came in under or on budget; Picatinny (aka "Picaninny") Arsenal felt politically threatened with closure if the USMC continued to develop stuff better than them.

    Part of the reason the USMC was bent on doing the development themselves was there were a few problems in the M198 Gun-Howitzer program. The Army did not have a need for the towed 155mm, as the Army had almost entirely switched to SP 155mm. Only the light infantry divisions had the requirement for 6 tubes each (airborne and air mobile divisions did not have this requirement), whereas the Marines were going to replace both the direct support M101 105mm howitzer and the general support M114 155mm howitzer with a single 155mm gun-howitzer.

    When it was all said and done, the Marines found out they had no trucks in their inventory that could pull the damn thing except the combat forklift. The M198 weighed 15,700 pounds, the 2-1/2 ton trucks (which had been the prime movers for the M101) were rated at 6,000 pounds, and the 5 ton trucks (the prime mover for the M114) were only rated to 15,000 pounds.

    Back to the topic at hand, the only improvements that were really beneficial to the Army were: the high twist barrel, which would have to be adopted as it was required for NATO standard ammunition, and the handguards.

    It turned out that small stature troops (and troops in body armor) work better with a shorter stock. And the Army prefers full auto, went back to it (M4A1). As to the sights,
    all the time I spent in the Army, I never once moved the rear sight adjustment off the 300/800 mark, and they have to make idiot-proof zero targets with boxes on them so you don't have to do the fractional math to zero your rifle.
    Last edited by lysander; 05-03-15 at 14:19. Reason: spelling

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    Well I've definitely gleaned some quality information from this thread.

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