TDP

[Sparky5019]

So how and where does one LEGALLY find the TDP? I know it's a process. We'd like to play but are getting conflicting data from sources.

Thanks!

[ac130usnsr]

Win a USG contract to provide M16 or M4 rifles to the Military and you can license the TDP from Colt expressly for that purpose and that purpose only.

[Sparky5019]

It's available to those who might be competing for said contract, otherwise the products can't be compared or even judged because they're not "to spec" to start with.

It's a serious question.

[cd228]

Serious Competitors for the most part already know where to go. Every Tom, Dick and Harry can't just bid for sensitive contracts. I'd contact ARDEC or DLA. Do you have a CAGE code?

[lysander]

The technical data still belongs to Colt. The only LEGAL way to get it is to buy it from Colt.

Everyone else "reverse engineered" it;

[ac130usnsr]

That's the rub and the reason that so far, only FN has been able to win a contract vs Colt. The TDP is Colt's proprietary information/intellectual property. The agreement Colt has with the USG is that they will license the TDP to a competitor that wins a contract and that that competitor can only use the information to manufacture rifles delivered under the contract. Competitors submit a bid with examples of past performance and their ability to not only manufacture and deliver in the quantities/timeline defined by the contract, but also to comply with published standards and QC procedures (milspec, ISO, etc.). Bidders on such a contract do not have to provide the USG examples of rifles they have made to the TDP during the contract competition. Colt does not give the TDP to their competition prior to contract award.

To get in the game there first has to be an open solicitation or request for proposal (RFP). Check FBO.gov. Then to be able to submit a bid/proposal you will have to have a DUNS number and a CAGE code, as well as meet the category of business designated to receive the contract (i.e., veteran owned, service disabled veteran owned, woman owned, minority owned, small business, large business, etc.). All of the information required to submit a bid (proposal) should be specified in the published solicitation or RFP published by the responsible contracting agency, who would also be the POC for any clarification of the solicitation or RFP.

Bottom line is that Colt is just not going to relinquish their intellectual property to just anyone with a CAGE code that wants to be prepared to bid on a contract.

[Sparky5019]

Serious Competitors for the most part already know where to go. Every Tom, Dick and Harry can't just bid for sensitive contracts. I'd contact ARDEC or DLA. Do you have a CAGE code?

CAGE Ccide is in process. Working on the other required creds. Thanks. I'll check those out. My main concern is where to find what info they put out for bidders, it may not be the whole package but to know what their parameters are for judging samples. Thanks for the info!

[Sparky5019]

That's the rub and the reason that so far, only FN has been able to win a contract vs Colt. The TDP is Colt's proprietary information/intellectual property. The agreement Colt has with the USG is that they will license the TDP to a competitor that wins a contract and that that competitor can only use the information to manufacture rifles delivered under the contract. Competitors submit a bid with examples of past performance and their ability to not only manufacture and deliver in the quantities/timeline defined by the contract, but also to comply with published standards and QC procedures (milspec, ISO, etc.). Bidders on such a contract do not have to provide the USG examples of rifles they have made to the TDP during the contract competition. Colt does not give the TDP to their competition prior to contract award.

To get in the game there first has to be an open solicitation or request for proposal (RFP). Check FBO.gov. Then to be able to submit a bid/proposal you will have to have a DUNS number and a CAGE code, as well as meet the category of business designated to receive the contract (i.e., veteran owned, service disabled veteran owned, woman owned, minority owned, small business, large business, etc.). All of the information required to submit a bid (proposal) should be specified in the published solicitation or RFP published by the responsible contracting agency, who would also be the POC for any clarification of the solicitation or RFP.

Bottom line is that Colt is just not going to relinquish their intellectual property to just anyone with a CAGE code that wants to be prepared to bid on a contract.

Agreed. I have the DUNS number and working on the CAGE Code like I said above. I knew Colt didn't share. The Army and I think the Navy let the package leak a few years ago without the proper procedures being followed when bidding for accessories (I think that was the context) so I'm sure they're a little tighter with it now.

Great info! Thanks so much! Honestly guys, I'm not looking to rip anyone off here or be shady. We're in the process of doing things the right way do we can submit a sample next time around so any help getting in the right spot is much appreciated!

Spencer

[cd228]

If you dig around you can find the report on COLT's protest to GAO, and their lawsuits against other manufacturers. The GAO report on the incident is open source, I had a copy on my old computer. Remington and several other vendors have received copies of the TDP over the years between the M16 contract bids, the M4 bids, FMS, etc.

What are you actually trying to do? With the draw down going on there will be a very limited opportunity to bid on an actual rifle contract. They are converting M4s into M4A1s and also reallocating weapons from deactivating units. As you will find, it will cost a bunch to spin up to where you can be competitive. That could bit your business in the fourth point of contact should a contract fail to materialize.

[ac130usnsr]

Agreed. I have the DUNS number and working on the CAGE Code like I said above. I knew Colt didn't share. The Army and I think the Navy let the package leak a few years ago without the proper procedures being followed when bidding for accessories (I think that was the context) so I'm sure they're a little tighter with it now.

Great info! Thanks so much! Honestly guys, I'm not looking to rip anyone off here or be shady. We're in the process of doing things the right way do we can submit a sample next time around so any help getting in the right spot is much appreciated!

Spencer

Unless it is specified in the RFP you should not have to provide a physical example with your bid. Like I said earlier, you will not get access to the TDP unless you are awarded a contract. I'm assuming that you are a small business. If the solicitation specifies a large business you will need to partner with a large business to bid on the contract. Basically you do all of the legwork, figure out costs per unit, your burdening and markup as well as an acceptable pass through to the partner and royalties to Colt, then the partner submits the bid as the prime and subs out part or all of it to your small business. If it is a small business set aside, then you would still probably be best served by partnering with a large business. In this case you would bid as the prime and sub to your large business partner in order to gain manufacturing capacity and economy of scale. You still do all of the same legwork, but you figure what your pass through is after your partner's burdening, markup and royalties to Colt. There are some gotchas on some RFPs, as some specify that the prime must do >51% of the actual work.

Supplying complete rifles as a small business is a pretty monumental undertaking. Part of the reasons that Remington lost their M4A1 contract were for underestimating Colt's royalties per rifle and doubts about their manufacturing capacity, which sent the contract back out for rebid, with FNH USA winning on an approximately $642/rifle bid.