P90?????

[Gutshot John]

Are we talking about the caliber or the gun? I see no point to the 5.7 that couldn't be accomplished with existing ammo.

I think the firearm itself is a neat design that is well executed, I'd just prefer it in 9mm or .45/10mm (OR in my wildest dreams 7.62x25 or .30 carbine).

[Bigun]

Are we talking about the caliber or the gun? I see no point to the 5.7 that couldn't be accomplished with existing ammo.

I think the firearm itself is a neat design that is well executed, I'd just prefer it in 9mm or .45/10mm (OR in my wildest dreams 7.62x25 or .30 carbine).

Agreed a 9mm carbine would probably fit our needs well enough or a .40 H&K PDW. Just something to increase our reach a little and improve hit probability over the Beretta 92.

[yrac]

If you're making an argument against using the gun/round within your department, you might also want to take into account ammo compatibility issues if circumstances ever require your department to work with another department/agency. If you're running 5.56 guns, it's very likely that any other agency you work with will have access to the same platform. If you're running a 5.7 gun, I'd say the reverse is likely to be true.

[Bigun]

Definately. Thank's Gentlemen.

[GNXII]

I have a civy PS90 that is alot of fun to shoot at the range and simply devasting against cans and rotting fruit but, I would not want to use it as a patrol rifle. Geez, why does your bosses want to mess around with the euro fickle P90 when Uncle Sam, thorough DRMO, DoD, or something, will practicaly give you (your Police Dept.) a M-16A1 thats been arsenal rebuilt to new specs. Swap out the original 20inch upper with a Colt, LMT, Noveske etc 16inch M4- type upper, change the stock to a MagpulUBR/CTR type (although A-1 stocks are comfy), mount up an Aimpoint ,load up mags with 55grain softpoints or something along those lines and presto, patrol carbine that will do a lot more then a P90/5.7. Hell, keep a few M-16A1s in there original 20inch configuration for perimeter work or as backups. Remember 5.56ammo might be tough to find now (it will get better) but if FNUSA ever dumps the P90/FiveSeven/PS90 your Dept. will be up a creek with out a paddle when 5.7 ammo evaporates. If they need some proof look at the 10mm pistol/ ammo and that was adopted with much fanfare by a major US agency (mucho bucks in their budget) and dropped a few years later...hear the crickets!!! Just sayin'....

[Bigun]

I've already made that suggestion while in training as a firearms instructor last week, I guess we'll see if it is followed.

[casio02478]

They used the P90 with the mil-spec AP ammo to resolve the Peruvian embassy hostage crisis a while back and the operators give it glowing review in it's ability to put the bad guys down. Although it must be said that the p90 fulfills a very specific niche of CQB in very confined environment and PSD work (secret service employ p90) . It thrives in the realm where MP5K/PDW use to dominate. It employes controlled burst rather then single shots for rapid incapacitation against armored foes. Take it out of that context and you have a fish out of water situation and it will leave you floundering.

[variablebinary]

I think the P90 plays its role well. Once you take it out of its intended role, things get sketchy. But the same can be said for any firearm.

A select fire P90 offers an incredible amount of firepower and you could literally perforate some piece of shit from crown to crotch in 2 seconds even if there is body armor present...

[John_Wayne777]

A select fire P90 offers an incredible amount of firepower and you could literally perforate some piece of shit from crown to crotch in 2 seconds even if there is body armor present...

...the snag with that is that because of the 5.7's rather weak performance you can put a number of bullets into a guy who is so little impacted by being shot that he can look at you and say "Stop shooting me with that thing!" (a real life incident) rather than dropping and ceasing his hostile actions.

It's sort of the same logic as shotgun performance....yes, a shotgun can put multiple projectiles on a target in short order...but if none of those projectiles penetrates deeply enough to hit vital structures you aren't as likely to stop the threat.

[Jack_Stroker]

...the snag with that is that because of the 5.7's rather weak performance you can put a number of bullets into a guy who is so little impacted by being shot that he can look at you and say "Stop shooting me with that thing!" (a real life incident) rather than dropping and ceasing his hostile actions.

It's sort of the same logic as shotgun performance....yes, a shotgun can put multiple projectiles on a target in short order...but if none of those projectiles penetrates deeply enough to hit vital structures you aren't as likely to stop the threat.

Well the civilian legal rounds suck. No doubt about that but the military ammunition should be capable of putting a guy down with a nice full auto burst to the chest. They should offer much better penetration characteristics.