Medical Cannabis Discussion

[Hmac]

Hmac- not to call you out specifically but you play right into my argument. You say that there are ZERO medicinal effects of marijuana but don't acknowledge that the human physiology comes pre-equipped with the endocanabaniod system. Why is that? Granted I am not a doctor, and nor am I constrained to treatment methods 'because the Feds said so', it just seems really odd to me that nature provides a plant that in its natural form can be consumed by humans with a range of varying effects. Yet with any drug we have a tolerance and overdose level. You can literally kill yourself faster with red bull, Tylenol, chocolate, coffee and even WATER faster than you could by smoking weed. This same analogy does not cross species or even to other mammals. Dogs and cats exhibit far greater negative affects when exposed to excessive smoke than any human ever will.

Without sounding like a hippie- it appears homosapien is SUPPOSED to smoke pot.

Further 'anecdotal' evidence: A really good friend of mine went to Afghanistan and had some... issues... on the road ways.

He spent ALOT of time at the VA between getting prescribed all the popular anti-depressants from a psychiatrist and spending serious amounts of time with a medical psychologist. All the regular PTSD symptoms: nocturnal bruxism, night terrors, IBS in the morning with bloody stools, anger outburst, really bad anxiety in crowded places, and lack of empathy towards even loved ones. He had terrible side affects with some of the anti-depressants without any of his chief complaints subsiding. After searching for years for the magic pill, he finally tried weed. To keep the story in context he never smoked weed recreationally or in his youth. Usage only started after separating from the military and finding little if any help from pills. He reports the following- nightly use of MMJ SIGNIFICANTLY reduces the occurrence of night terrors (thats one you never hear about). MMJ also seems to work very well during periods of high stress, anger, or anxiety. MMJ helps incredibly for reducing IBS. It has even helped him in his relationship with his wife by helping with the empathy and compassion. He still has bruxism and the only way to control that seems to be a mouth guard, and he doesn't claim that weed fixes his chronic back pain or nerve pain. He did mention how awful some of the side affects where on the other drugs including: erectile dysfunction (he's only 30 and his wife is smoking hot), incredibly long lasting 'drowsy/fog' affect making him almost useless at work, still had anger outbursts, and some of the medications even had withdrawal symptoms.

I think he has finally settled on the magic formula for him of nothing more than cymbalta and weed. Far less than the skittles bag of pills he used to take and he is significantly more functional.

I didn't say that there were "ZERO medicinal effects" to marijuana. I said there is no Level I evidence of medical benefit to use of marijuana. Do you see the difference?

I'm a clinician and a scientist. I can't just conjure up a treatment and apply it to my patients because a segment of society wishes the benefits of marijuana to be true, endocanabinoid pseudoscience notwithstanding. You, or somebody, has to provide me with proof of clinical efficacy. Outside of the 30% of epilepsy patients for whom conventional treatment doesn't work, there is precious little evidence that marijuana has any value whatsoever as a medical treatment. As I have said elsewhere in this thread, there may be such value but no one has proven it to the extent necessary to be accepted as a valid medical treatment. If that happens some day and it ends up somewhere other than DEA Schedule I, I'm sure that I'll prescribe it for my patients, or not, just like any other standard pharmaceutical agent. For now...DEA says it's Schedule I. That's all I need to know.

Anecdotal "evidence" doesn't cut it. It's only a little better than "wishful thinking".

[muzzlebraker453]

i have met people who smoke for medical reasons and i have also met people who smoke just to get high.
smoking to ease pain and gain appetite is very effective. i has visited a friend's wife at the hospital and she was prescribe cannabis when other meds would just do. its a better solution than all the addictive cocaine containing medicine.

[WillBrink]

I'm a clinician and a scientist. I can't just conjur up a treatment and apply it to my patients because a segment of society wishes the benefits of marijuana to be true, endocanabinoid pseudoscience notwithstanding. You, or somebody, has to provide me with PROOF of clinical efficacy. Outside of the 30% of epilepsy patients for whom conventional treatment doesn't work, there is precious little evidence that marijuana has any value whatsoever as a medical treatment. As I have said elsewhere in this thread, there may be such value but no one has proven it to the extent necessary to be accepted as a valid medical treatment. If that happens some day and it ends up somewhere other than DEA Schedule I, I'm sure that I'll prescribe it for my patients, or not, just like any other standard pharmaceutical agent. For now...DEA says it's Schedule I. That's all I need to know.

Anecdotal "evidence" doesn't cut it. It's only a little better than "wishful thinking".

I will take that as progress made! As you know, I'm all for research and more research needed to parse out what's legit medical use for medical cannabis and what's wishful thinking and a schedule change is needed for that to happen.

[WillBrink]

A report on a new study looking at indicators of stress: low doses helped with stress, higher doses may make it worse. One of various reasons a medical professional experienced in medical cannabis should be in the loop as with any potentially psycho active compound:

"Our findings provide some support for the common claim that cannabis is used to reduce stress and relieve tension and anxiety.

At the same time, our finding that participants in the higher THC group reported small but significant increases in anxiety and negative mood throughout the test supports the idea that THC can also produce the opposite effect."

Cont:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/arti...m_medium=gplus

[Hmac]

"Our findings provide some support for the common claim that cannabis is used to reduce stress and relieve tension and anxiety.

At the same time, our finding that participants in the higher THC group reported small but significant increases in anxiety and negative mood throughout the test supports the idea that THC can also produce the opposite effect."

No big surprise there. It even fits the stereotype.

"s'all good, man...."

[WillBrink]

No big surprise there. It even fits the stereotype.

"s'all good, man...."

Yup, but as we both agree, confirmational data on claims made for benefit needs to continue to get medical cannabis past stereotypes

[Big A]

I haven't read through the whole thread but the way I see it is, it's a plant. It was legal long before some now dead politicians decided that it should be made illegal. I have no problem with people imbibing intoxicants. They're gonna do it regardless. Tell most Americans they can't do something and watch what happens. Whether it helps them with pain or what not, I don't know or care really. I think we waste too much time locking people up for possessing <20g of marijuana. All that effort and money could be going to research cannabis's benefits outside of just medicine. Could it's chemical components replace opiates as a pain reliever? Could it be used for renewable energy?

Now I'm not some stoner legalization advocate, I've never even tried the stuff. I just think we're wasting a lot of time and resources fighting a losing war. People are gonna do what they want to do and I'm tired of us trying to save them from themselves. If they wanna get high all day, so be it. Let those of us who decided to be productive members of society go about our lives and leave them to the mess they have made of theirs. Legalize everything and stop any and all tax dollar funded rehab. Let charities and churches pay for it.

[Pi3]

It looks like CBD is being approved in the UK. They have been conducting their own clinical trials.
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-37623486

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/b...b-59e9c872e644

[WillBrink]

It looks like CBD is being approved in the UK. They have been conducting their own clinical trials.
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-37623486

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/b...b-59e9c872e644

Good to see a major top university will be doing much needed research on the potential benefits of CBD.

[Pi3]

Low dose THC reversed aging/ improved memory in old mice.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0508112400.htm