Medical Cannabis Discussion

[Guitarman]

I don't doubt there are legit uses for it. My problem with it is everyone I know on MMJ was a stoner growing up and are doing nothing but looking for a legal way to get high as part of the bad back brigade or migraine mafia and "weed is the only thing that helps man". I'm sure there are plenty who don't fall into that crowd, but not among the people I personally know.

This, 1,000 times!

[hdrolling]

^^^^And at the risk of getting labeled as this type of person is why some vets like me (that need help) don't want to try to ask.

[WillBrink]

^^^^And at the risk of getting labeled as this type of person is why some vets like me (that need help) don't want to try to ask.

I would agree that such comments don't help change the perception and bias out there by some. I knew lots of stoners growing up too. I was also surrounded by alcoholics, but that does not stop me from enjoying some drink when the mood hits me and knowing in moderate intakes, a plus to health.

Please don't let that prevent you from perusing what may be quite effective for a range of issues. What is true, is we need more data on the medical uses, but that's changing also as states realize the fed ban is outdated, illogical, and not supported by the data, and more research is done, and more docs report their clinical findings and experiences. As you can see, even the normally conservative VA not being anti medical cannabis.

[Texas42]

Seeing that we are being anecdotal, I've seen several patients adversely effected by MJ use. Anxiety d/o, nausea/vomiting disorders, and chronic pain syndromes caused or exacerbated by marijuana. I suspect we will see this become more prevalent as recreational marijuana becomes more common.

I know we are discussing medical marijuana, not recreational, but the I feel the end goal of most of the push for legalization is using potential medical uses as a stepping stone.

[WillBrink]

Seeing that we are being anecdotal, I've seen several patients adversely effected by MJ use. Anxiety d/o, nausea/vomiting disorders, and chronic pain syndromes caused or exacerbated by marijuana. I suspect we will see this become more prevalent as recreational marijuana becomes more common.

It's not for everyone, proper regulation and safety recs, etc need to catch up to what's going on currently. The development of edibles and such, which can be far more powerful, and can cause side effects. ERs have seen a big jump in people in the states that have gone full legalization. That's on the recreational side.

Medically, it's highly standardized, and medical docs can do what they do, which is write for a specific dose, knowing what dose of X they find effective for Y condition, and monitor the person appropriately. Medical cannabis is not smoked BTW, and non psychoactive components also showing value.

I just visited a medical dispensary via Tru Lieve and was very impressed.

I know we are discussing medical marijuana, not recreational, but the I feel the end goal of most of the push for legalization is using potential medical uses as a stepping stone.

My personal thoughts on that is, so what? As a Libertarian oriented person, none of my business and identical to booze. Do it responsibly, none of my business. If not, drive drunk, stoned, etc, we have a an issue.

[Hmac]

Recreationally, I'm pretty neutral although I suspect that ultimately, the overall societal impact will be negative. Fortunately we have a broad-based lab experiment going on a few states over in Colorado. Societal impact data coming up before too long, I suspect, if only we can separate out the bullshit that such a study is certain to contain on both sides of the issue.

Medically, still no compelling evidence of efficacy. Furthermore, no matter what the state of Minnesota says, marijuana violates Federal law and as long as my DEA license is dependent on following DEA regulations...absolutely no signing off on marijuana for any patient of mine.

[WillBrink]

Recreationally, I'm pretty neutral although I suspect that ultimately, the overall societal impact will be negative. Fortunately we have a broad-based lab experiment going on a few states over in Colorado. Societal impact data coming up before too long, I suspect, if only we can separate out the bullshit that such a study is certain to contain on both sides of the issue.

As expected, early data coming in from CO has been mixed. As expected, it will take some time to level off and I think they should have tighter regs on such products.

Medically, still no compelling evidence of efficacy.

Even since I started the thread, and we discussed that, there's been additional studies. For example, in some of the most prestigious journals on the planet (e.g., Lancet, Brit.J.Med, etc) using gold standard RCTs, showing stat sig benefits for seizures for example and positively viewed by Epilepsy Foundation:

http://www.epilepsy.com/learn/treati...a-and-epilepsy

Studies, discussion, etc above if interested in the citations. It would be accurate to say there's a lack of data in some areas for which medical cannabis is claimed to help, solid data in other areas, with more needed to parse out needed info. To say no compelling evidence of efficacy for any benefits claimed, is not accurate. The threshold for data has been met in a number of conditions, and a number of national orgs now agree with that assessment, which also happened recently. The landscape is changing very rapidly.

An article in Scientific American also:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ptic-seizures/

Furthermore, no matter what the state of Minnesota says, marijuana violates Federal law and as long as my DEA license is dependent on following DEA regulations...absolutely no signing off on marijuana for any patient of mine.

Can't blame you for that and why a schedule change is needed under Fed law. Obviously, some docs in those states it's legal at the state level are offering that as a treatment for those ailments for which the state has approved it, and as posted, vets will not lose medical access to the VA should they use medical cannabis of they are in a state it's legal. See link to VA policy above.

[6933]

Furthermore, no matter what the state of Minnesota says, marijuana violates Federal law and as long as my DEA license is dependent on following DEA regulations...absolutely no signing off on marijuana for any patient of mine.

Our state has been considering med. weed and my wife has the exact same sentiments. Not a chance she will write for it.

[turnburglar]

Hmac- not to call you out specifically but you play right into my argument. You say that there are ZERO medicinal effects of marijuana but don't acknowledge that the human physiology comes pre-equipped with the endocanabaniod system. Why is that? Granted I am not a doctor, and nor am I constrained to treatment methods 'because the Feds said so', it just seems really odd to me that nature provides a plant that in its natural form can be consumed by humans with a range of varying effects. Yet with any drug we have a tolerance and overdose level. You can literally kill yourself faster with red bull, Tylenol, chocolate, coffee and even WATER faster than you could by smoking weed. This same analogy does not cross species or even to other mammals. Dogs and cats exhibit far greater negative affects when exposed to excessive smoke than any human ever will.

Without sounding like a hippie- it appears homosapien is SUPPOSED to smoke pot.

Further 'anecdotal' evidence: A really good friend of mine went to Afghanistan and had some... issues... on the road ways.

He spent ALOT of time at the VA between getting prescribed all the popular anti-depressants from a psychiatrist and spending serious amounts of time with a medical psychologist. All the regular PTSD symptoms: nocturnal bruxism, night terrors, IBS in the morning with bloody stools, anger outburst, really bad anxiety in crowded places, and lack of empathy towards even loved ones. He had terrible side affects with some of the anti-depressants without any of his chief complaints subsiding. After searching for years for the magic pill, he finally tried weed. To keep the story in context he never smoked weed recreationally or in his youth. Usage only started after separating from the military and finding little if any help from pills. He reports the following- nightly use of MMJ SIGNIFICANTLY reduces the occurrence of night terrors (thats one you never hear about). MMJ also seems to work very well during periods of high stress, anger, or anxiety. MMJ helps incredibly for reducing IBS. It has even helped him in his relationship with his wife by helping with the empathy and compassion. He still has bruxism and the only way to control that seems to be a mouth guard, and he doesn't claim that weed fixes his chronic back pain or nerve pain. He did mention how awful some of the side affects where on the other drugs including: erectile dysfunction (he's only 30 and his wife is smoking hot), incredibly long lasting 'drowsy/fog' affect making him almost useless at work, still had anger outbursts, and some of the medications even had withdrawal symptoms.

I think he has finally settled on the magic formula for him of nothing more than cymbalta and weed. Far less than the skittles bag of pills he used to take and he is significantly more functional.

[yoni]

I am too busy to write on this thread. Getting ready to invest a lot on money in medical MJ using the Israeli methods of extracting the CBD's from the green raw material. Just hired our chief scientist last friday.

I am playing this like a high tech start up with the exit strategy being in 5 to 7 years being bought out by Big Pharma when they get in the game and buy out the serious players for big money.