How to Help a Cop During a Life-Threatening Struggle

[titsonritz]

The link you posted in no way relates to the OP's question, or most of the comments in the thread.

As the OP I will confirm this. Regarding the above mentioned video, I don't see a cop, I see some drunken asshole.

[JasonB1]

As the OP I will confirm this. Regarding the above mentioned video, I don't see a cop, I see some drunken asshole.

Then you wouldn't want to assist him in a fight either simply due to his employment. The officers who eventually arrested him did not start out from that angle, initially taking his story as the truth instead of everyone else present.

[titsonritz]

And I didn't say I would.

[26 Inf]

Then you wouldn't want to assist him in a fight either simply due to his employment. The officers who eventually arrested him did not start out from that angle, initially taking his story as the truth instead of everyone else present.

Jason - Do you know more than what the story you linked to provides?

Because all I got from the story and the video was: Cell phone video taken by customers at the bar shows the handcuffed woman saying that she has done nothing wrong. The person who took the video says the off-duty deputy had been drinking. I don't see ANYPLACE in the story where EVERYONE in the bar told the responding officers the officer was in the wrong. And according to the video he was arrested, unknown if at the scene, but the video sounded like it.

So let's say you are on a construction site and a couple of guys approach and start to get into it with a guy you are working with, saying he disrespected them. Things are getting heated, about to go to blows, and all you've got is him saying 'no I didn't' and them saying 'yes, you did.' What do you do?

As I said, the case you are discussing, has very little to do with, as the thread is titled 'How to Help a Cop During a Life-Threatening Struggle'. That bar episode wasn't life threatening.

I've been in situations where I have stepped between fellow officers and suspects, on several occasions early in my career, I regret that I merely told other officers 'I don't put up with that crap, you do that with me around again, I'll file a case' today I'd do it differently.

And yes, there were officers I worked with that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire, but I always managed to get the job done in an ethical manner on my part despite their hijinks.

So I apologize for getting a little irritated when folks get to painting with too broad a brush.

[JasonB1]

I am aware the post was about assisting an officer without question. I am also aware the universal advice of not interfering with an officer no matter what they are doing, but for the victim to take it up in court later, but thought I would share a reason for non-police bystanders to not immediately get involved since the officer one may be helping may not be the victim in an incident in addition to the strong chance of a police officer killing a want to be good samaritan due to not liking non-police in their personal space.

There is more information around on the incident.

Patrons were telling the officers what happened which was 180 degrees opposite of the (obviously drunken, as has been noted) deputies story. When one of the arriving Columbia police officers was shown the video was when he ordered Deputy Derrick to be arrested and the cuffs removed from the victim so there was at least that amount of time when they were taking the word of an obviously drunken man over other present simply because of his occupation.

The Sheriff's office initially defended Derrick after the Columbia Police mentioned he had no authority to place her under arrest(which was the case considering she had committed no crime and Derrick would certainly have brought that up.)

After the news hit the fan, the SO eventually fired Derrick and made indications this was not his first rodeo, just the most egregious which further raises the question as to why they had to pipe up with support instead of a no comment if they had to say anything.

Finally, he only got charged with, and plead guilty to, assault and got a sentence of time served. This is interesting considering he also seems to have been engaged in kidnapping since he had no reason to gain control over her as well as carrying a firearm in the commission of a violent crime. At least that more than likely just the beginning of what anyone else there would have been charged with had they taken it upon themselves to engage in the same actions he took.

There have been plenty of people I have known and worked with(including police officers) that I would not interfere with anyone beating them to a pulp over something they had done. In the last couple of years there have been a couple of national news incidents where fathers beat to death(or almost beat to death) men they caught raping their young children. I don't know about you, but it would really bother me to later find out I had stopped those beating from occurring and it would not matter to me if the person getting their ass kicked was a pimp, a police officer, or the pope. Some people just have it coming.

Likewise, there are people I have known and worked with(including police officers) that I would assist without question.

Witness something like a mugging or other similar random act and I would help no matter who they are.

If I see something questionable as to who started the incident there is no way I would assist just because of where they work.

Good on you for at least threatening fellow officers in the wrong. That is a huge step above an incident from earlier this summer where New Jersey officers stood by while a colleague executed his recently divorced wife on a city street then hugged him and patted him on the back after he surrendered, essentially at his own leisure.

[jjackson@tierthreetac]

I think 26 Inf covered it. As a police officer I think that calling 911 and relaying that the officer is in trouble is step one. I would not recommend using a cruiser radio as other units pulling on scene are going to be distracted by a civilian rooting through a cop car. Also there are a lot of mics and equipment in the car and it is not always easy to use for someone who doesn't know how. You can't get a hold of dispatch using the PA mic lol. Interestingly enough there is a code in virginia that requires citizens to help police if it does not cause them to be in danger. Just use your common sense if you can boot the guy in the head go ahead. I would not recommend using a gun if at all possible. I'm a very proficient shot and I don't know I could shoot an offender off of another officer during a fight.

[Leuthas]

As has been pointed out - and as I find from my personal experiences - good men generally do not concern with the possible dangers of helping someone in dire need of physical help. This often leads to the necessity of training away from that natural response with practices such as CCC/Check Call Care, where you check first whether you'll become the next victim.

I probably wouldn't get involved unless the cop asked me to. He doesn't know me, and neither does the backup that might pull up at any minute and confuse me with the bad guy. Now if the cop's on the ground screaming for help, then you gotta do what you gotta do, but I would really caution someone against trying to be a hero.

That is not the point.

[henschman]

I think it would be prudent to have a clear idea of who is in the right and who is in the wrong before taking sides in any struggle lest one aid the aggressor.

http://archive.armytimes.com/article...-soldier-fired

This.

[Benito]

I don't think that anything short of unequivocally coming down on the side of the police means that one "hates cops".

I'm against this whole Black Lives Matter smear job against police, and totally support cops (e.g. Darren Wilson) using lethal force to defend themselves from rampaging thugs trying to brutalize them.
With that said, some cops sometimes do some terrible, illegal things. I guess all I'm saying is that I would take it on a case by case basis. If I see someone about to execute a cop, I would obviously want to stop that ASAP. If on the other hand I saw a totally different situation, I would err on the side of caution and avoid exposing myself to getting arrested, charged, sent to jail, sued, smeared, etc. knowing that I would be on the hook for all by bills as a private citizen. It's not like I have my employer/union covering my back. I go to jail, my family starves.

[titsonritz]

Here is a situation were a couple cops were glad to have a good guy with a gun standup...


POLICE ARE crediting a vigilant gun owner with saving the life of an Upper Darby cop Friday after he saw the officer being attacked and surrounded by a large group of teens.

"There were 40 kids. If it wasn't for the good Samaritan stepping forward, he'd have been dead meat," Upper Darby Police Superintendent Michael Chitwood said. "There's no doubt they would have attacked him."

read more...Police: Gun owner saved cop from attack by kids