Legitimate Pistol Technique for 1-Man Room Clearing?

[militarymoron]

After watching the whole sequence around the 4:57 mark in the Why I Fought vid, it looks like he's practicing getting ambushed on his left side while clearing on his right side - getting his gun on target even as he's diving out of the way of incoming fire.

That sums it up pretty much. I spoke to tyler on the phone to ask him about it, and he said that he can certainly understand why it looks weird without context.

basically, what he explained was that it is a survival technique when shots start behind you. So you go in and boom, they fire at you from behind, and at that point milliseconds count and you must drop your vital areas out of the way and return fire immediately, as in a one man clear no one else is picking up that threat.

when entering a room after pieing the room as much as possible (this is one-man room clearing), you still have to pick a side to enter. in this instance, he's entering the door and clearing the right corner. if someone that he didn't see pops up from the left corner (behind him) and starts firing at him, it's quicker to punch out the pistol behind and return fire immediately, while simultaneously dropping down (to get the vitals out of the line of fire); than swinging/pivoting around (in theory). if you drop down and point the pistol behind you, the sights are naturally facing at a downwards angle and so is your head. after engaging in this position you immediately follow through and assault the target as you normally would (with the sights on top, both hands etc) without pausing. this reversal of direction is supposed to be done quickly in one fluid movement. it's basically trying to engage the target behind you as soon as possible then following through normally.

he was doing different things during the filming and it wasn't meant to be included at this time. This technique requires a VERY high degree of gun handling and skill and was not meant to be shown. It will be covered on the show in full context and like anything it is a tool to be used for a specific situation which will be explained on the show.

[Endur]

That sums it up pretty much. I spoke to tyler on the phone to ask him about it, and he said that he can certainly understand why it looks weird without context.

basically, what he explained was that it is a survival technique when shots start behind you. So you go in and boom, they fire at you from behind, and at that point milliseconds count and you must drop your vital areas out of the way and return fire immediately, as in a one man clear no one else is picking up that threat.

when entering a room after pieing the room as much as possible (this is one-man room clearing), you still have to pick a side to enter. in this instance, he's entering the door and clearing the right corner. if someone that he didn't see pops up from the left corner (behind him) and starts firing at him, it's quicker to punch out the pistol behind and return fire immediately, while simultaneously dropping down (to get the vitals out of the line of fire); than swinging/pivoting around (in theory). if you drop down and point the pistol behind you, the sights are naturally facing at a downwards angle and so is your head. after engaging in this position you immediately follow through and assault the target as you normally would (with the sights on top, both hands etc) without pausing. this reversal of direction is supposed to be done quickly in one fluid movement. it's basically trying to engage the target behind you as soon as possible then following through normally.

he was doing different things during the filming and it wasn't meant to be included at this time. This technique requires a VERY high degree of gun handling and skill and was not meant to be shown. It will be covered on the show in full context and like anything it is a tool to be used for a specific situation which will be explained on the show.

Sounds like great stuff. I look forward to the show.

[threeheadeddog]

It looks to me to be very similar to what happens when you do a turn draw(such as in el presedente) and are pushing the draw to sooner in the turn. I find that in my el presedente the gun cants(though does not go upside down) as a byproduct of trying to get the muzzle facing the target during the turn.

[Leuthas]

I have some rather strong reservations on passing too great of judgement on these - as they are only small clips - and the apparent and total disregard for some of the most fundamental principles and philosophies in weapon manipulations known across the spectrum of shooting sports and military applications. Things such as natural movement, response and point of aim, as well as using your body as a structure to control a weapon and economy of effort are simply absent.

The physical issue that in order to achieve the position shown - assuming your starting point is a more natural shooting stance - is excessively long and complex. I understand part of the idea is to avoid incoming fire at close range, however contorting ones body away from a normalized and more natural attitude isn't necessary at all.

I'd like to see and hear from him first hand to actually get a full understanding of the concept.

[T2C]

I saw this technique in a black and white U.S. Army training video we viewed in the 1970's. The instructor in the film was wearing a WWII vintage uniform and shooting a 1911. If I can find it on cyberspace, I will post the link.

As long as you are picking up your sights and exercising proper trigger control the orientation of the firearm does not matter. I saw one of our pistol instructors hold a 1911 upside down and successfully shoot at a bullseye target at 25 yards while demonstrating sight alignment.

The man in the picture appears to be demonstrating a weapon indexing technique versus strict sight alignment. If you are operating alone in close quarters it works. If you are clearing a room in a crowd there are other options.

[Leuthas]

I saw this technique in a black and white U.S. Army training video we viewed in the 1970's. The instructor in the film was wearing a WWII vintage uniform and shooting a 1911. If I can find it on cyberspace, I will post the link.

As long as you are picking up your sights and exercising proper trigger control the orientation of the firearm does not matter. I saw one of our pistol instructors hold a 1911 upside down and successfully shoot at a bullseye target at 25 yards while demonstrating sight alignment.

The man in the picture appears to be demonstrating a weapon indexing technique versus strict sight alignment. If you are operating alone in close quarters it works. If you are clearing a room in a crowd there are other options.

I don't think that is being disputed.

[jenrick]

I've seen something similar taught in various tactical shooting schools run by Israeli military/LE folks.

The physical issue that in order to achieve the position shown - assuming your starting point is a more natural shooting stance - is excessively long and complex. I understand part of the idea is to avoid incoming fire at close range, however contorting ones body away from a normalized and more natural attitude isn't necessary at all.

I'd actually say it's a fairly reasonable physiological response to taking rounds. We see it all the time in FoF with cadets, etc, they duck away however briefly into a position not unlike what is shown. If you can condition that response to include getting your gun pointed in the right direction, I'd say it's workable. At interior distances, sighted fire is not always necessary to start getting hits.

-Jenrick

[Vandal]

I trained to be in a similar position going from by back to bad guy with hands up to a quick draw, point to rear acquire sights and start shooting. Then, while keeping your gun on target and rounds going out, adjust to a more traditional standing shooting position. I can see it working in a one man room clearing if you're taking fire from behind.