DBAL-A3 vs. Atpial C

[Ironman8]

Glad that's out of the way...

Soooo...how is the IR illum? According to TNVC the A3 and I2 have the same illuminator.

Wasn't this answered on the first page?

Cliff notes:
If you need to reach out to 200+ meters, then the D2 is probably best, but at that range the limiting factor is the PVS 14.
For close in work, go with A3 or I2 for the focusable beam.

Doesn't seem like there's one to rule them all on the civilian market. For me, I'll be going I2 (Single Spectrum) since I really have no need to reach out that far at night.

[Eurodriver]

No, it never got answered because someone was convinced the I2 didn't come with illum.

The Atpials Illum is not adjustable and the DBALs is. That was all I saw settled so far.

Does one reach further than the other? Is it worth the extra $500?

[Ironman8]

No, it never got answered because someone was convinced the I2 didn't come with illum.

The Atpials Illum is not adjustable and the DBALs is. That was all I saw settled so far.

Does one reach further than the other? Is it worth the extra $500?

Looking at the specs on each, I would tend to lean toward the A3/I2 having the better illuminator at range. But I could be wrong.

This was sorta touched on by M4Guru (if you read between the lines):

I spent a pretty decent portion of my adult life seeing green, and I would look to the IR illuminator to make my decision. The aiming laser is cool and all, but the IR flood is what allows target ID and awareness of your shooting environment...a big concern for home defense or teaching end users.

I have a PEQ-15, LA-5, and an ATPIAL-C and while the laser is decent the civilian version's non-adjustable illuminator is borderline useless. Compared to the real thing ( I prefer the UHP LA-5), the C model is a Prius engine in a muscle car body.

I agree that the form factor of the ATPIAL is more favorable than their LDI counterparts, but the civilian DBALs have an adjustable IR illuminator which put it ahead for me.

You can augment the laser with a Surefire V-series light and get by, but it's not as ideal as having adequate IR illum on the laser unit. In addition, you lose the ability to immediately have white light if your I2 gest washed out or becomes impractical.

[Eurodriver]

Thanks man.

I think I'll give it a shot. I am a huge PEQ fan but I want to see the -C model in person first and for an additional $500+ I'm not seeing the bennies.

[Ironman8]

Thanks man.

I think I'll give it a shot. I am a huge PEQ fan but I want to see the -C model in person first and for an additional $500+ I'm not seeing the bennies.

I would talk with TNVC, they're good people and will answer whatever questions you have. You'll have a definite answer at least

[HKGuns]

This thread, while good, is confusing. Can someone, who knows these products, please put a summary together of the products and their features and include the PEQ-2?

It would help me a metric ton and I suspect others as well.

[Defaultmp3]

This thread, while good, is confusing. Can someone, who knows these products, please put a summary together of the products and their features and include the PEQ-2?

It would help me a metric ton and I suspect others as well.

Civilians can buy class 3 visible lasers without issues, and class 1 IR lasers without issues; note that the old designations of using Roman numerals has been superseded. Note that high powered IR illuminators available to civilians are LED-based, which means that they give off a visual signature in the dark, albeit a very faint one with limited viewing angles.

Model	Visible designator	IR designator	IR illuminator	For sale to civilians?	Special features/notes
TPIAL AN/PEQ-2A	N/A	Class 3B	Class 3B (adjustable flood)	No	No visible laser
ATPIAL AN/PEQ-15, LA-5B/PEQ, LA-5C/PEQ	Red	Class 3B	Class 3B (adjustable flood)	No	Different designations for different power levels
AN/PEQ-15A DBAL-A²	Red or green	Class 3B	Class 3B (adjustable flood)	No
DBAL-A³ Class 3	Green	Class 3B	Class 33B (adjustable flood)	No	Visible override port (toggles visible laser and compatible WML together), designators have slaved zeros
CQBL-1 Class 3	Red	Class 3B	N/A	No	Designators have slaved zeros, very compact so perfect for SBRs, SMGs, and PDWs
MIPIM (AN/PEQ-16B)	Red	Class 3B	Class 3B (adjustable flood)	No	Includes a 125 lumen white light as part of unit
RAPTAR	Red	Class 3B	Class 3B (adjustable flood)	No	Includes a laser range finder as part of unit, designators have slaved zeros
ATPIAL-C	Red	Class 1	Class 3R (fixed flood)	Yes	Designators have slaved zeros, lower profile than DBALs
DBAL-I² Class 1 dual spectrum	Red or green	Class 1	N/A	Yes	Cheap
DBAL-I² Class 1 single spectrum	N/A	Class 1	Class 3R (adjustable flood)	Yes	Cheap, useful if no need for visible laser
DBAL-D²	Green	Class 1	LED (adjustable flood)	Yes	Designators have slaved zeros, LED illuminator much longer range than Class 3R illuminators but bulky and has visible signature
DBAL-A³ Class 1	Green	Class 1	Class 3R (adjustable flood)	Yes	Visible override port (toggles visible laser and compatible WML together), designators have slaved zeros
CQBL-1 Class 1	Red	Class 1	N/A	Yes	Designators have slaved zeros, very compact so perfect for SBRs, SMGs, and PDWs
RAPTAR ES Class 1	Red	Class 1	Class 1 (adjustable flood)	Yes	Includes a laser range finder as part of unit, designators have slaved zeros
RAPTAR Lite ES Class 1	Red	Class 1	Class 1 (adjustable flood)	Yes	Includes a 300 lumen white light as part of unit, designators have slaved zeros
X400V IRc	N/A	Class 1	LED (fixed flood)	Yes	Includes a 150 lumen white light as part of unit, primarily for pistols
DBAL-PL	Red or green	Class 1	LED (fixed flood)	Yes	Includes a 400 lumen white light as part of unit, primarily for pistols, designators and illuminators of each spectrum turn on together

[HKGuns]

Civilians can buy class 3 visible lasers without issues, and class 1 IR lasers without issues; note that the old designations of using Roman numerals has been superseded. Note that high powered IR illuminators available to civilians are LED-based, which means that they give off a visual signature in the dark, albeit a very faint one with limited viewing angles.

You sir are a Saint! Thanks very very much!!! That is exactly what I was hoping for!!!!

[dangrullon87]

The DBAL-PL was such a disappointment.. No option to toggle either light/laser both must be enabled. Waiting for the SBAL-PL now but I havent seen or read anything about it for months now.

[Eurodriver]

ETA: nvm