Sig 320 vs Glock

[C4IGrant]

Are they saying the shipping is on the customer's dime? Both ways? I see you're a dealer so likely you have info here we don't

No, but having had customers send SIG's back (for a mechanical failure), that is how they typically roll.


C4

[Todd.K]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...on-my-Glock-22

[Bayoublaster]

LOL, yep. The M9A3 is an awesome pistol.


C4

It will be nice when they catch up on production for those. I haven't gotten to play with one in a while.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...on-my-Glock-22

I hadn't heard about that but I will remember this.

[Gödel]

Gen 4 Glocks also had a lot of problems. But there is a line between an unreliable, inaccurate or fragile firearm and one that can't be trusted to not shoot you under common circumstances.

[C4IGrant]

In all honesty when I saw the news they released a pistol without any safety at all, including the dingus I said this is an accident waiting to happen.

The biggest WTF for me is how it passed the Army's testing.

Well, that is the $10k question. After the 320 failed the FBI's drop test, what did they do to fix it before going to MHS?? No one seems to know or can verify that there is a mechanical difference between the M17 and P320. My guess (based off no facts) is that the thumb safety on the M17 some how changes the:

A. Trigger bar alignment.
B. Removes weight from the trigger.
C. Changes another part of how the fire control group functions inside the gun.


C4

[PattonWasRight]

SAAMI test is six different angles.

b) Barrel vertical, muzzle up.


I'm sure you could look up the MIL test requirement as well.

Thank goodness, I'm glad to be wrong. "B" is where the Sig fails. Looking up the spec, it's 4 feet of height like TTAGs tested. Mysterious why it didn't fail for Sig. Perhaps tested before the modification was made to eliminate the "double click" in trigger travel, and then not retested? Whatever the reason, telling the truth upfront would have been the right way to handle it ...

"Hey, we made some modifications during later stages of development and we did not retest the gun after the modifications were made. We regret this mistake and will be taking care of the needed updates at our expense. We will also revise our QA processes to ensure this scenario does not happen again."

[C4IGrant]

To be fair it was after the third drop test that the slide issue came up.

Rather than just throw Sig under the bus I'd rather see the energy put into asking other manufacturers what testing they do above the standard. And how the standard tests can be improved.

Who knows how many designs are out there that might have a problem being dropped at a particular angle that hasn't been tested?

Guns fire when dropped in two different ways (typically). The striker is pulled back and or released via the inertia of impact to the rear of the pistol, pulling the trigger rearward. Or there is no striker block and the firing pin moves forward and strikes the primer.

So with that out of the way, any pistol with safety on the trigger would pass a drop test (Glock, HK, S&W, etc) as the trigger cannot move to the rear and they have a striker block.



C4

[C4IGrant]

Hold on minute. You guys are OK with Glock still selling gen3 40's? Probably including to LE they know or should know will use lights on them?

Nope. Fought that one on every forum and FB feed I cam across. Though crappy, people could not shoot themselves from it.


C4

[Todd.K]

Thank goodness, I'm glad to be wrong. "B" is where the Sig fails.

Not quite. The Sig has to be dropped with the barrel at a bit of an angle, not vertical. Vertical would have frame hitting first, to get it to fire the back of the slide has to hit.

Look I'm not saying Sig should or shouldn't have tested it more. I'm not claiming they were or were not upfront about the problem when they were able to replicate it.

I'm saying plenty of other designs could have a problem, and they and Sig could have run the above tests extensively without a failure.

[RHINOWSO]

A direct quote from Ron Cohen at their P320 briefing

"If you build it completely drop safe, you legitimize mishandling."