500 yard group - how am I doing? update post #46 - 0.5 MOA at 560 yards.

[wilson1911]

Comparing a 6br to a 308 is not even fair.

Given the fact that his gun is a worked factory rem action, not that good of a stock for precision, not a good target to shoot at range, and is on a basic level of reloading. I think he did a great job for the equipment and knowledge he has. Most people would be 12 inches or lucky to hit the paper at 500 yards.

Given what he asked about his groupings and not having anyone to help him refine what he has shows he has good potential and is wanting to learn more.

[ubet]

If you want a long range load don't build a load at 100yds build a load at 300+yds. Seen more than one rifle that would shoot better at 300+ than 100.

[rjacobs]

If you want a long range load don't build a load at 100yds build a load at 300+yds. Seen more than one rifle that would shoot better at 300+ than 100.

Build a load with a chrono and it wont matter what range you shoot them at, shoot em into the ground at 5 feet because all you are looking at is the load consistency. If you have a load that goes across the chrono with single digit SD's and low ES's(which will come with the single digit SD) its probably going to be a pretty accurate and consistent round at any distance.

I just got done building a 6.5C gas gun and did an OCW. Thought I had a node, but when I shot that powder charge over the chrono it was like 20+ SD and 50+ ES. Kept working higher in .1g increments and I got into a .4g wide node of single digit SD's and mid teen's ES's.

[ubet]

Build a load with a chrono and it wont matter what range you shoot them at, shoot em into the ground at 5 feet because all you are looking at is the load consistency. If you have a load that goes across the chrono with single digit SD's and low ES's(which will come with the single digit SD) its probably going to be a pretty accurate and consistent round at any distance.

I just got done building a 6.5C gas gun and did an OCW. Thought I had a node, but when I shot that powder charge over the chrono it was like 20+ SD and 50+ ES. Kept working higher in .1g increments and I got into a .4g wide node of single digit SD's and mid teen's ES's.

I've never used a chrono, money was always tight and it was reloading supplies or "stuff" I generally always go with reloading components. Had a 300wsm that liked 185gr Berger vlds over n560, it would barely hold moa at 100yds but their were three times I put three rounds into a hole the size of a 45acp casing at 300yds. Granted when I did the math on using my dope on those rounds I think they were pushing 3150fps.

[TacMedic556]

You are doing awesome! As stated by others above, you are sub moa. At 500 I would be happy with a 5" group all day long. Listen to the part of this video where they address the 1 moa group.

[Lefty223]

Look into the optimal charge weight method by Dan Newberry ... and shoot the ladder.

[Bimmer]

Given that this load is my best shooter by far, I'm just curious where do I fall in the "decent, good, great" spectrum.

I'm impressed. I'm not that good, but my 2¢: I'd call this "good" or even "great" if you can do it consistently.

Cheap upgrades:

1. Buy a chrono and use it. How much have you spent on the rifle and ammo and components?! Spend $100.- on a decent chrono.

2. Bipods are convenient, but sandbags are more stable.

3. Use a better target... The precision guys at SH are shooting at 'multiples,' so that each shot goes at a different target. See the "quarters" target that Molon has posted here, somewhere.

[andersenvincent7]

If you are shooting 1/2 MOA you are doing damn fine.

[ubet]

Look into the optimal charge weight method by Dan Newberry ... and shoot the ladder.

This is great advice

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Hootiewho]

It is very hard to determine what if anything you need to do to shrink that down with only 5 shots.

I'll be straight up, for 98% of the population that is excellent shooting at 500 yards. If you are looking to get into shooting things like the PRS, you will probably want to shrink it down a bit. Reason being, once you get past 650-800 yards with a .308 at your elevation, your enviromentals and physics will begin to take their toll on your shots. I know you are a big boy and can handle criticism, so I'll come out and say it; if that were my rifle I would like it a little bit tighter.

I would not be surprised if that one little guy off by himself was just a bit of a trigger snatch. If it had been in with the other shots, I would say you are exactly where you want to be.

This is about average of what I do with my AI and 175 gr FGMM at 100 yards, prone with Atlas and rear bag.



This is the same rifle with the 260 Rem barrel installed shooting hand loads at 1k at a FTR type match in GA. Now this is the tightest group I have shot at that distance to date, and it was during sight in, before the match started shooting prone with Atlas and TAB gear rear bag, hence only 3 shots. FWIW, I loaded this ammo using a Frankfort Arsenal pocket scale. I do have an Oehler 35P and the SD on this load using 140 gr AMAX and H4350 is around 6 FPS.




If I am starting with a new rifle, I like to see what it will do with and without whatever muzzle device I might be running. I have had brakes cause me grief before, so that is something I always check first. I also like to really slow down when evaluating a load. I would probably dry fire 3-5 times prior to each of those shots. Build up my position and settle in, then dry fire a few times, load a round, break shot, follow through, then break position if I was tired and start over. I know ammo is costly, but I also suggest at least a 10 shot group when doing an eval to really get an idea of what the load is doing.

I would also suggest picking up some known quality loaded ammo to evaluate along side my reloads. Something like the Applied Ballistics .308, FGMM, or Copper Creek.

A chrono is nice to have, but not necessary. If you are just starting out or a year or so into it, I dare say spend that $300+ on ammo or training. You are down near one of the best precision rifle instructors in the US, Derrick Bartlett. I would spend that $ with him and worry about a chrono later. Honestly, one of the things that helped my reloading the most was watching the old 80's era training video of David Tubb doing precision reloading. In that training video he emphasizes several times that charge weight differences are not near as detrimental to grouping as other factors. He demonstrates this at the range. I am not saying you can be all over the place with your measurements and expect laser beam precision; but I did load that ammo in the 1000 yard picture above when I did not own a chrono, and FWIW I placed 1st that day with my scored shots.

If you do decide you would like to buy a chrono, I would strongly suggest either getting a magnetospeed, Oehler, or maybe one of the Labradar units if they shake out to work well. If MS had the mounting options available when I bought my Oehler 35P, I would have just bought the MS. That said, the 35P is the gold standard. The best place to catch a deal on any of those is of course Snipershide's EE. Lots of guys moving from Oehlers to MS or Labradar, so at times you can find a deal on an Oehler.

I would also suggest picking up some Applied Ballistics loaded ammo with the Berger 185 gr Jugg bullet. I love that bullet in my .308. One of the best bullets you can get for the .308 IMHO. Lots of guys on the hide have had great luck with that bullet and PP 2000MR powder, getting insanely high velocities without the normal pressure signs you would see with other powders.

Keep us posted on your progress!