Page 3 of 25 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 243

Thread: Magpul MLOK vs Keymod

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    9,529
    Feedback Score
    45 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    Didn't we already have this thread going?
    One or two maybe.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    216
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by E.H. View Post
    For me MLOK is the clear winner thanks to this product:
    https://youtu.be/x27g4TNuvnM
    Now if only manufactures could get on board
    Wow ... hadn't seen that before.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    229
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by E.H. View Post
    For me MLOK is the clear winner thanks to this product:
    https://youtu.be/x27g4TNuvnM
    Now if only manufactures could get on board
    My keymod rail attachments have been loosening just sitting there. This is brilliant and I hope it gets more exposure. I'd definitely pick up a Geissele rail in favor of my KMRs.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The Left Coast
    Posts
    1,450
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Defaultmp3 View Post
    From another forum:
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop

    Keymod
    Pros:
    Open source, not restrained by a TDP, which allows a manufacturer to improve upon the mounting method.
    Shows better alignment of mounted items, as the attachment nut is conical and tightens into a beveled recess.
    I believe this is true if you examine the design, and in practice this is evident.

    Cons:
    Open source, not restrained by a TDP, which allows a manufacturer to screw-up the mounting method.
    Requires higher than usual toque for a small screw to avoid loosening, but must remain low enough to prevent damage to the nut or handguard.
    I don't think this is true. I believe that there is a mechanical advantage to the beveled nut/rail interface that makes for a tight and sure fit without the torque necessary in a simple clamp.
    The attachment nut and mounting slot must be able to withstand significant torque without deforming, which makes both highly sensitive to material and hardening processes.
    To reverse an item, the nut recess must first allow it, and the user must loosen and flip the nut.
    I think I understand what he was trying to say here, but wear on the Keymod slots are going to be minimal unless you are constantly installing and removing Keymod accessories in which case you might be better of with a Picatinny rail section. The Mlok also requires alignment to remove the Mlok piece.

    M-Lok
    Pros:
    Patented and controlled by Magpul, which ensures that everyone that is making an M-lok accessory that bears the M-Lok logo has to have been approved by them, which keeps everyone at the standard that they want.
    Attachment method can bear very high torque, ensuring that accessories won't loosen if mounted correctly.
    As I said above I believe Keymod provides strong attachment without the necessity to torque screws very tightly. I believe Mlok requires more torque which is why it needs larger screws.
    Attachment hardware can withstand high pull force.
    This is probably an advantage for Mlok, but the question is: Is it necessary?
    Items are immediately able to be reversed when mounting.
    A definite advantage for Mlok, but many accessories don't need reversal or are designed to take reversal into account.

    Cons:
    Patented and controlled by Magpul, which prevents outside manufacturers from changing the attachment method for a specific purpose.
    Attachment hardware can be shifted (without loosening) with lateral leverage.
    This is a real disadvantage for Mlok, but does it matter? In some instances; Yes it matters. But for a lot of stuff it wouldn't.

    Frankly, most people will never notice a difference if they just pick the one that they think looks the coolest, so long as high quality parts are used.
    This is true IMHO, the key (no pun intended) is the use of high quality parts.

    NOTE: My use of the word "frankly" is not at all condescending, but rather indicates bare honesty on my behalf, with as few words used as necessary.

    Also, this:

    Roland's just a pseudonym, guy was in an SMU at the time of posting, which was June of 2015.

    I've also heard first hand of issues with Keymod mounted bipods being pushed out of place (occurred at a John McPhee precision course of some sort, I believe with a BCM KMR). Personally, I've heard enough issues with KM to make me prefer M-LOK, all things being equal, but it's not something I will worry about, and things will never be equal between a Keymod rail and an M-LOK rail (Keymod will almost always be lighter). Right now, the only things I mount in the Keymod sections is a QD sling stud on my NSR (my PWS upper has built-in QD studs in the Keymod holes) and lights (which I can easily switch to mounting off the top Picatinny using the Unity Tactical FUSION Hub or perhaps their Monkey Bar, or use an IWC Thorntail Picatinny).

    I would never put much credence in a comment made to some blog post from a guy who heard about a guy...... If I were hard core with a precision rifle running a bipod, neither Keymod or Mlok would be my rail. And if it had to be Keymod or Mlok I'd add a long multi-slot picatinny to the bottom of the Keymod or Mlok tube and attach a picatinny qd to the bi-pod.
    I'm not a hard core shooter, but some of the arguments don't make sense to me in my 3+ years of using the Keymod and 18 months of Mlok. Comments in RED above.

    Finally, I just don't see Keymod being more susceptible to loosening from expansion contraction than Mlok.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The Left Coast
    Posts
    1,450
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cokie View Post
    My keymod rail attachments have been loosening just sitting there. This is brilliant and I hope it gets more exposure. I'd definitely pick up a Geissele rail in favor of my KMRs.
    I don't intend to offend you, but are you installing them correctly? I have not had a Keymod accessory loosen in more than three years of use and thousands of rounds. BTW you buy KMRs for the weight savings, G rails are a little heavier, but very high quality.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    229
    Feedback Score
    6 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
    I don't intend to offend you, but are you installing them correctly? I have not had a Keymod accessory loosen in more than three years of use and thousands of rounds. BTW you buy KMRs for the weight savings, G rails are a little heavier, but very high quality.
    That's the thing, as far as I know, I am doing it correctly but I haven't had someone show me exactly how to do it. I assumed that no one would put out products that would get loose under no stress. Are there standard torque in/lbs for the rails? Its all BCM stuff but I didn't get any instructions.

    Yeah as far as the weight goes for the geissele vs a quad rail, I'd be happy to lug around the geissele. I love how light my KMR is but if its not going to hold stuff tight I'd rather take a few more ounces.

    I'm gonna attach all the rail sections I have. Some are aluminum and some are poly. I'll let them sit and see if they all do the same thing. I'll know if I have a bad section that way.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    440
    Feedback Score
    17 (100%)
    I can see that happening to Poly sections of rail but not aluminum. I only need rail for a bipod so I always use aluminum.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Burpelson AFB
    Posts
    1,084
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    Didn't we already have this thread going?
    Quote Originally Posted by titsonritz View Post
    One or two maybe.
    Up men! Up! And to your posts! Let no man forget today that he is from Old Virginia! - General George Pickett

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,221
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottsBad View Post
    I'm not a hard core shooter, but some of the arguments don't make sense to me in my 3+ years of using the Keymod and 18 months of Mlok. Comments in RED above.

    Finally, I just don't see Keymod being more susceptible to loosening from expansion contraction than Mlok.
    OK...I've tried to stay out of this one, but I need to address some things that could use some clarification.

    M-LOK and Keymod both repeat to <1MOA. M-LOK you just bias the accessory to one side and forward before tightening. Keymod can vary with torque values on return to zero or with slot damage.

    The conical seating surface without other design features in application( that are not present in KeyMod) are an engineering NO-NO.

    M-LOK doesn't NEED tighter torques, in fact, in poly it's 15in/lbs, but it can accept higher torques and it is not as narrow of a range. It's easy to hit an acceptable torque. KeyMod flirts between too loose to hold and causing mounting surface damage.

    The wear on KeyMod surfaces can occur simply from retightening accessories because they keep coming loose from creep/compression of the conical seating surface and/or the nut. See engineering NO-NOs above. Then the slot is all buggered out.

    Stronger pullout...Many KeyMod metal rails allow accessory pullout at forces significantly less (like almost half) than what it even requires to pull M-LOK out of polymer. M-LOK has a larger seating surface (and it's flat so when you add the force vectors KeyMods seating surfaces are really small), thicker mounting surface, stronger nuts, larger fasteners, and none of the conical seating surface problems.

    Yes, it doesn't take much in many cases to pull bipods out of keymod, or even vert grips with a semi concerted effort, and anything that takes a good knock or drop can come loose. M-LOK Bipod adapters can take a bipod load that exceeds anything even remotely sensible, as in barrel touching rail on the test guns. We use them in precision classes all the time, and we have a Manfrotto tripod head mount that supports the entire rifle in a semi-cantilevered situation with ease.

    Also...M-LOK is as much just the slots and lug spacing as anything. An update of the MOE slots and adaptation of a commercial Bosch type T-Nut used in industrial applications for the current backside solution. It's open to QD attachment systems as long as it works universally within the system, and you'll see more of those soon, including ones that deal with adjusting to tolerancing for lateral stability and return to zero with even greater fidelity than the 1 MOA current standard.

    If anyone is happy with keymod, great. I'm not trying to dictate what a consumer should be pleased with. I just jumped in to correct some things so that information is accurate. If you go to any of the M-LOK products on our web site and look under "related info" there are two docs that lay out the what's and why's of M-LOK pretty well.
    Duane Liptak, Jr.
    Executive Vice President
    Magpul Industries

    info@magpulcore.com

    This is a personal account linked to a personal e-mail. Company affiliation and titles are provided purely for transparency requirements of the host site. Although factual company information may be shared through this account, any opinions expressed are solely those of the account holder, and not necessarily those of Magpul Industries or subsidiaries.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    3,190
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by BBossman View Post
    Yes, but we will keep asking... because no one wants to admit that KeyMod is already dead.

Page 3 of 25 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •