Reloading cast .38 SPL loads for lever-action?

[Auto-X Fil]

It's winter (finally), which means I'm switching over to mostly revolvers, since I hate picking brass out of the snow.

My buddy has a pair of Vaquero SASS revolvers, and I have a S&W 66. They both shoot very well with a variety of normal .38 Special loads - 158gr LRN over Bullseye, Blue Dot, True Blue, Titegroup, Unique, etc. I'm not a great pistol shot, but off the bags I can put the True Blue and Bullseye loads into 2" or less at 25 from my S&W.

Point being, we have some decent 38 Special loads. None of them shoot in his scout-scoped Henry Big Boy. That gun will put a full tube of my H110/JHP .357 loads into one hole at 25 without blinking, but groups 3"+ at 25 with all of the above 38 Special loads.

If we were talking 0.5" vs 0.75" groups, I could see the gun not liking the lead, or the fast-burning powders. But this is nuts. I kind of assume that the issue is the bullet having essentially huge freebore jumping from the short .38 Spl case to the .357 mag-length throat, with no revolver forcing cone to straighten it out. Does that sound right? Or has anyone gotten decent performance from .38 Special in a lever-action? I'd like to at least get 1 to 1.5" groups at 25yd.

[T2C]

I don't think bullet jump hurts the accuracy of a .357 Magnum lever gun. I own a Hartford EMF 1892 in .357 Magnum and a majority of the reloads I shoot are .38 Special. I reload Remington lead SWC sized at.358" and Berry's plated bullets. In my lever action Bullseye, Win231 and Titegroup don't work as well with lead bullets as they do in revolvers. I think barrel length has an effect on those powders when shooting lead bullets.

Unique works well with lever action reloads and lead bullets. Through experimentation I learned that plated Berry's Bullets work well with Bullseye.

My best shooting lever action lead load is the Remington SWC bullet & 4.0g Unique & Winchester Small Pistol primer @ 1.485" C.O.L. It will shoot sub 4" groups at 100 yards and a ragged hole at 25 yards. The best shooting plated bullet load is a Berry's 158g FP & 3.7g Bullseye & Winchester Small Pistol primer @ 1.485" C.O.L. It will shoot sub 2" groups at 50 yards, but I have not checked accuracy at other ranges.

You may have to experiment with C.O.L and bullet crimp to tune the loads to your Henry. Someone with better eyesight could shoot better groups than I can no doubt.

[Auto-X Fil]

Thanks, I have seen people citing slower powders. I'll move up to the Unique/Universal range and see if accuracy improves.

[Ttwwaack]

Slug the throat of your chamber. If your bullets are too hard, they won't obertrate to seal well. It sounds as if T2C is using swaged bullets which are softer. Ideally with cast you want .001-2 over bore or a softer bullet and a stiff charge to pressure seal it. Rossi's have notoiously large bores, .359/60. With 38 special loads you could get away with 9-12 in hardness (50% wheel weights & 50% lead) as long as the bullet is fat enough.

[T2C]

Slug the throat of your chamber. If your bullets are too hard, they won't obertrate to seal well. It sounds as if T2C is using swaged bullets which are softer. Ideally with cast you want .001-2 over bore or a softer bullet and a stiff charge to pressure seal it. Rossi's have notoiously large bores, .359/60. With 38 special loads you could get away with 9-12 in hardness (50% wheel weights & 50% lead) as long as the bullet is fat enough.

I am not swaging the bullets, but I am not sure how Remington sizes them. They are bulk pack Remington bullets from MidwayUSA http://www.midwayusa.com/product/160...semi-wadcutter.

My Hartford 1892 is made by Rossi and the barrel slugs at .357". I owned a Marlin 1892CB and the barrel slugged at .3595", which is why I had the Remington bullets on hand. I was trying to find a bullet that would shoot well in the Marlin and I had a lot of headaches developing an accurate load. The Hartford will shoot bullets in the .357" to .359" range well.

I have only owned a few lever action rifles, but I have never had any luck getting lead bullets to shoot well with faster powders. Reloads with faster powders that will shoot under 2" at 50 yards from my PPC revolver would not shoot well out of my lever guns. When I switched to Unique powder, accuracy became acceptable.

[Ttwwaack]

Ran into the same problem with Red Dot, OK at 25 but fell off fast. Went to Unique and gtg and better than B dot. R dot in a handgun was good. Those Rem 158s are swaged. I'm waiting on a run now for a Mihec 180 gr 4C GC mold with interchangable Cramer style pins to also cast a 170 HP with a RN FP style for feeding in leverguns like the Lyman 358665 CB bullet. I know my Winnie 92 sure likes the Hornady 158 xtp with a boxcar load of H110. I almost want to put a tang sight on it which is going to happen on my 92 in 32-20.

I also tried some LC 125TC with Bdot. Either the bullets are to small, hard or I was just pushing them abit too hard. Hard lesson learned. They were left overs from a production run for a friends 642. It seems my rifle prefers the heavier options although I get ok result with jacketed 110-125s which takes away the cheap plinker concept of the levergun.

Next run on that Mihec mold mentioned above I'll have to make a couple boxes of HPs for you, checked sized and lubed.

[Auto-X Fil]

FYI, I ended up getting the 158gr LRNFP bullets to shoot. All groups are 6-8 shots at 25yd from bags:

Marlin lever action:
Bullseye - 8" (all over the place!)
231 - 5" (mostly tight, some wild flyers)
Unique - 3"
Power Pistol - 1"

S&W 66:
Bullseye/Unique/231 - 3-4". Limited by shooter skill, I'm sure.
Power Pistol - 6" was my best. Some 8"+

It's a little annoying that the only load that really shoots in the rifle sucks in the revolver. But at least I have a cheap lead load for the long gun now! And, I'll be loading Unique for the sixgun, so if I end up short and want to use it in the Marlin or Henry it's not a total disaster.

I also might circle back on 231, and see if the flyers go away with a harder crimp, magnum primer, higher charge, etc. It mostly shot right to the same POI as PP, but with wild flyers.

[williejc]

Go to Cast Boolit Forum. There's a ton of info on this topic. They spell bullet as boolit. Down the road, pm me if you have questions.

[TiroFijo]

Respectfully, I would say the largest factor in your accuracy evaluation was probably the shooter...

[T2C]

I was digging through old target data and found 50 yard results for Unique powder. Load = 158g Remington LSWC + 4.0g Unique + mixed brass @ 1.485" C.O.L. This load shot sub 1-1/2" groups at 50 yards with my EMF Hartford 1892.