NV's role in HD?

[twadsw01]

Wanted to start a discussion on the place of night vision equipment in a home defense plan. It's something I've been thinking about recently, and was wondering about 1) it's practical usage/employment, as well as 2) how its use would play in front of a jury, since it often comes up in self-defense discussions how things like reloaded ammo would play to a jury.

Thoughts?

[Treehopr]

I think it works best for folks who live in rural or semi-rural areas where:

- not a lot of ambient light (e.g., street lights, neighbors, passing cars, etc)
- LE response times are long

I'd suggest using it primarily for passive observation and detection; you'd stil want to identify and engage the threat under white light.

I wouldn't necessarily use it to repel boarders in my house but I know a few folks who fall in to above categories that have had trespassers and poachers come on to their land at night.

NV is a powerful tool but it's also a $3-$5k ride to get started with the ancillary equipment and unless you have military experience with it, commercial training is hard to find. It is also not a substitute for training with white light.

[Kadelic]

I can't speak much to #1 as I don't own any or have any experience with NV gear. As for #2, I can see how a prosecutor might use the fact that NV equipment was used might indicate the user had been hoping or even planned for a chance to use it. Said prosecutor might imply there was premeditation involved. Just thinking out loud.

On a similar note, I've wondered the same thing about using electronic ear-pro in an HD situation. I keep a set of electronic earmuffs handy in my bedroom just in case I might have the chance to put them on to give myself an advantage if I hear a bump in the night. The question is, and this would apply to NV gear, will you have time to don them in the heat of the moment?

[twadsw01]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I keep a pair of electronic ear pro hanging on my HD rifle, so that, in the event that I do have a moment to put them on, I can possibly avoid some higher magnitude long-term hearing loss from touching one off with sheetrock on two sides and a stippled ceiling above me. I cannot even begin to imagine how loud that'd be. I've shot in a few different shoot-houses with concrete floors, open roof (was constructed in a hangar type of building though, with a roof probably 30' above the entire shoot house structure), and sheetrock walls, and even with doubled up ear pro, it was pretty loud. I can imagine scenarios in which the time to don electronic ear pro would put one at a disadvantage, and I'd be willing to forego the hearing protection in the interest of life-preservation in those situations, but otherwise, I cannot imagine that donning them would be disadvantageous.

Would be necessary to ID target with white light for sure, 100%, Tree. Here's another thing: it seems like a lot of people own IR lasers and NODs around the various shooting/firearms-oriented forums around the web though, so are there that many people who live out where there's not much ambient light, or are there that many people that just own all that simply because we still can at this point in time (falling in the same category would be "because it's fun to shoot at night", or "because I want to replicate my work setup")? What is the point?

[Treehopr]

Plenty of people may own NV but they may not necessarily use it for HD. The parameters I mentioned were for what I would consider a realistic, practical use of NV for Home Defense.

If others want to use NV for hunting, plinking or just to have than more power to them.

I'm the right circumstances, NV can be game changer but it's not the be all- end all. NV has limitations, which is why I stated that you'd be better off doing your threat discrimination and engagement under white light.

I have NV but would still consider it filling in a very narrow set of requirements.

[Treehopr]

I think all the hypothetical "would you have time to..." questions are valid but should be applied across the board to anything.

Would you have time to:

- call 911?
- alert your family?
- grab a gun?
- grab a flashlight?
- put on ear pro?
- put on body armor?
- put on night vision?

It's easy to funnel scenarios in to a worst case scenario but instead of using that as a reason to dismiss an option out of hand, use it to prioritize your training so that those hypotheticals can be achieved.

You may have an AR in your bedroom safe but what happens if you get attacked in the kitchen?

Are your tools set up in the areas that you actually spend time in or is it set up for ease of storage?

Are you going to have a gun in hand but no phone if someone kicks in your door?

Will you be able to access a Med kit if you barricade yourself in a bedroom?

[bluebird]

I think all the hypothetical "would you have time to..." questions are valid but should be applied across the board to anything.

Would you have time to:

- call 911?
- alert your family?
- grab a gun?
- grab a flashlight?
- put on ear pro?
- put on body armor?
- put on night vision?

It's easy to funnel scenarios in to a worst case scenario but instead of using that as a reason to dismiss an option out of hand, use it to prioritize your training so that those hypotheticals can be achieved.

You may have an AR in your bedroom safe but what happens if you get attacked in the kitchen?

Are your tools set up in the areas that you actually spend time in or is it set up for ease of storage?

Are you going to have a gun in hand but no phone if someone kicks in your door?

Will you be able to access a Med kit if you barricade yourself in a bedroom?

Agreed. The best equipment is most likely the only thing next to you which NV is not likely to be one of them IMHO.

[tmanker]

I live in a rural area and have been through this in my own head dozens of times. Either entrance to my house requires breaking through two doors. On the night stand is a G19 w/ no white light and a G17 with white light. The G19 has no white light because it's my carry gun. My wife knows how to proficiently use either weapon. If I hear someone breaking in (god I hope this is the case), I will call 911, tell her to grab our 1 year old and lock themselves in the bedroom. I'm not sure if I lock myself in also, or take the fight away from my family. Scary situation either way. I know I don't time to grab thermal, night vision, etc...

[Scrubber3]

You guys don't sleep with your NVGs on? Geez... yall better get with the times.

Seriously though, I can see the use in having them close just in case you need to gather family members and don't want to give away your position.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[ColtSeavers]

I think all the hypothetical "would you have time to..." questions are valid but should be applied across the board to anything.

Would you have time to:

- call 911?
- alert your family?
- grab a gun?
- grab a flashlight?
- put on ear pro?
- put on body armor?
- put on night vision?

It's easy to funnel scenarios in to a worst case scenario but instead of using that as a reason to dismiss an option out of hand, use it to prioritize your training so that those hypotheticals can be achieved.

You may have an AR in your bedroom safe but what happens if you get attacked in the kitchen?

Are your tools set up in the areas that you actually spend time in or is it set up for ease of storage?

Are you going to have a gun in hand but no phone if someone kicks in your door?

Will you be able to access a Med kit if you barricade yourself in a bedroom?

That right there is beautiful.