MP5: Zenith/MKE vs. American-made Clone

**scooter22** · 03-09-16, 14:12

I was ready to drop the hammer on a Zenith/MKE, but have been doing a bit more research.

Apparently, the Zenith/MKE is not "sear-ready", and would require some modification to get it up to speed.

I do not have a FA sear, but I would like to purchase one at some point in the future if they aren't >$30k.

On HKPro, members were suggesting Brethren Arms or Atlantic Arms, both US mfg.

I was wondering who has had experience with any of these, and your respective opinions.

I am more concerned with the quality of the firearm vs. the sear-ready capability.

NOTE: Please do not say "if you can afford a FA sear, you can afford a sear-ready host down the line", or "why are you worried about a sear-ready host, if you don't have a FA sear?". My reasoning is that I'd prefer to have a host ready to rock, but it's not absolutely necessary.

**Auto426** · 03-09-16, 14:27

NOTE: Please do not say "if you can afford a FA sear, you can afford a sear-ready host down the line", or "why are you worried about a sear-ready host, if you don't have a FA sear?". My reasoning is that I'd prefer to have a host ready to rock, because why not?

I think that kind of answers your question for you. If you want those capabilities, then the Zenith gun won't work for you.

**scooter22** · 03-09-16, 14:30

While I agree, I'm more concerned about quality.

**JoshNC** · 03-09-16, 15:00

Bro you are going to need to buy a sear this year if you want one for less than $30k. I suspect by Jan 2017 we will see them at $32-35k. With that said, even at $35k the HK sear is the most versatile MG one can buy. Unless it will completely break the bank, I would buy one as soon as you can at whatever is fair market pricing at the time. You won't be sorry.

As for what sear ready clone you should buy, HKPro is going to be your best source for that information. How much are you willing to spend? Do you want a K or fullsize?

AA has good reviews on HKPro. Dakota Tactical gets the very highest marks of all the US built clones. Tracy Precision also seems to do nice work and they can mod a MKE to allow it to accept a sear.

**scooter22** · 03-09-16, 17:06

Well, shit. I was looking at a sear within the next few years.

As for the gun, I was looking to spend <$2k. Dakota Tactical is way out of that budget, and I'm not even sure why they're so expensive.

**KalashniKEV** · 03-09-16, 18:43

BLUF: If you desire to go full auto someday, it is extremely important to your success and happiness that your gun is in-spec and assembled from quality parts- I would strongly caution you against commercial spec, US guns, and recommend an MKE or POF.

Originally Posted by scooter22

While I agree, I'm more concerned about quality.

If it's quality you seek, I would avoid all commercial spec US made clone guns and go for an HK original, or a weapon manufactured and assembled on HK tooling, built from HK spec material.

It wasn't until very recently that you could cobble together an HK-type in this country without using Todd Bailey/ Speshul Weapons parts. Even today, most of the garage builders are using his out of spec, hit or miss receivers (or their offspring) to build on.

Additionally, the nature of manufacturing HK-type, DRBB guns require factory jigs and tooling to assemble them correctly. These do not exist in the United States, so what you have is different guys who managed to rig together different sets of jigs for welding, some more successful than others. Those who were able to tweak their jigs or were just plain lucky managed to obtain some kind of a reputation for putting out a high percentage of functioning weapons.

Because of the freakishness of the HK community, some garage builders were put on a pedestal and others vilified- but they were all still using the same junk parts in homemade jigs- just with differing degress of success.

This is also a reason why TOS might not be the best place to go seeking advice, honestly...

A lot of these guys have BIG money tied up with the garage builders products, and have taken a major loss in the value of their collections since multiple sources of licensed production have shown up in the marketplace.

This has lead to silly arguments about "POF has an unacceptably high paint sheen" and "look at these welds" (with my new macro lens). Also, the new spin is that the (current and former) HK licensed, ISO certified factories that produce professional-use, world class fighting arms are "mass production" and that the garage builders are "artisans" who hand craft each build that leaves their bench.

It's totally and completely backwards and absurd...

**scooter22** · 03-09-16, 18:50

It's settled; Zenith it is. Now, back to my original conundrum: full-size vs. PDW.

What's the scoop on 922r parts?

I see theres a US-made lower/trigger pack on HKParts. Do I want to steer clear of this option?

**KalashniKEV** · 03-09-16, 18:52

Originally Posted by scooter22

Apparently, the Zenith/MKE is not "sear-ready", and would require some modification to get it up to speed.

Just like Makarovs are required to come in with those ugly thumb shelf grips, and the threaded Beretta 71 pistols had those heavy ass fake suppressors installed, HK-types must have a block installed to make it through customs.

The ATI/MKE guns placed the block forward in the receiver, the Zenith/MKE guns put it in a much more easily accessible location in the rear.

Both blocks come out in less than ten minutes, at home, with a dremel.