IRON SIGHTS, what "paper" targets do you use at 100, 200, 300 yards?

[NinjaLoader]

There are a lot of opinions about at what range you want to zero. A majority of the non-match ammunition I shoot is 55g and as a rule, regardless of barrel length, I adjust my sights to hit 2" high at 100 yards. For this particular rifle it gives me a 250 yard zero. I set the rear sight at 300 minus 4 clicks at that zero and I can either adjust the elevation up 4 clicks at 300 yards or hold over 2 MOA. I fired the rifle at 250 and 300 yards and the sights are on the money. As a rule + 2" at 100 yards will give you a rough battle zero out to 250 yards.

The measured average muzzle velocity of the same ammunition is 240 fps slower when fired out of my 16" carbines. I set the rear sight for a POI of + 2" at 100 yards with the elevation set at 300 minus 5 clicks. At 300 yards I hold over 3 MOA or raise the elevation 5 clicks.

I can't comment on what a computer program will tell you about different loads; I am not a computer person and would be talking way out of my lane. All the data I compiled over the past 30 years is from measuring muzzle velocities with a chronograph, referring to ballistic tables in reloading manuals, shooting at known distances and writing the data in my rifle log books.

When you start using different bullets weights and velocities, you have to experiment with hold over and elevation adjustments and fire groups at the longest distances your range facilitates to verify your zero and how many clicks elevation is required for those zeros. Some people are deathly afraid of adjusting their iron sights and I suggest not going down that path. Learn how to read the wind and light and adjust your sights accordingly.

The longer the distance is to the target, that much more attention has to be paid to canting and follow through. Once the light bulb goes off, you will have a lot of fun making good hits on targets out to 600 yards with iron sights.

Good luck and good shooting!

Thanks, always something new to learn. I have noticed a wide variety of opinions on ideal zeros for AR15 A2's.

For my ballistic calculations I'm not guessing as I know my average velocity and ballistic coefficient for my particular load. I even know the degree of the line of sight angle for each yardage at my range.



I like the idea of being able to utilize the 300 yard zero at 8/3 but still being able to click past (counterclockwise) the 8/3 so you can shoot point of aim at 100 and 200 yards. The reason I want a 300 yard zero (our targets are actually 293) is to compete in some prone matches at this yardage. I figure I'll get the best of all worlds for my particular situation trying it this way. Who knows? It may or may not work but trying is half the fun. I discovered the trick to modifying the rear sight elevation wheel by reading about different zeros. I'm not going to battle anytime soon (I hope)..

I have to admit that not being able to dial in zeros at 100, 200 yards is a little disconcerting from me as I'm used to doing so on scoped bolt guns.

I am also thinking though about what's better: a six o'clock hold at these fixed distances or point of aim.. I'm using Nra targets shown above, don't have the 300 yard targets but I've got to get lucky and show up at the club when an officer does to purchase them.

So, I'm aiming a black front post in the middle of a black circle. If I can't gain enough contrast, I may be forced to go with a six o'clock hold zero at these fixed distances.

I honestly don't know but maybe it's a well known fact that most shooters who use these targets use a six o'clock zero hold for that reason. If Nra targets are basically six moa targets at any yardage, then, I suppose we'd want zeros where the POI is 3", 6", 9" high at each yardage respectively. Interesting that my auto spell put in "headache" instead of "yardage" lol. I am getting a headache thinking about all of this.

Tired of talking about it and want to shoot. They are calling for a winter storm this weekend... Not ideal.

[T2C]

To throw another option into the mix, a flat tire hold works well for some people. A 6 O'clock hold is a good hold for older people with diminishing eyesight. If your vision is sharp enough, center hold works very well. Learning to shoot multiple ways and logging your zeros gives you more tools in your toolbox. If lighting conditions are poor a 6 O'clock hold on the black bull or at the bottom of the target frame may be a better option than a center hold.

As my eyes aged over the years, I went from using center, flat tire and 6 O'clock holds, to strictly a 6 O'clock hold to currently using a line of white hold. The farther you hold from center of target, the more effect canting has on POI.

If you go to the range and work on developing better rifle skills you should be a little tired, both mentally and physically, at the end of your range session. Shooting well is hard work, but enjoyable and very rewarding.

Too bad about the weather forecast. At times I look forward to inclement weather. If it's 40 degrees and rainy, I most often have the rifle range to myself. If it's really windy, it's a great opportunity to practice reading and adjusting for the wind.

[NinjaLoader]

To throw another option into the mix, a flat tire hold works well for some people. A 6 O'clock hold is a good hold for older people with diminishing eyesight. If your vision is sharp enough, center hold works very well. Learning to shoot multiple ways and logging your zeros gives you more tools in your toolbox. If lighting conditions are poor a 6 O'clock hold on the black bull or at the bottom of the target frame may be a better option than a center hold.

As my eyes aged over the years, I went from using center, flat tire and 6 O'clock holds, to strictly a 6 O'clock hold to currently using a line of white hold. The farther you hold from center of target, the more effect canting has on POI.

If you go to the range and work on developing better rifle skills you should be a little tired, both mentally and physically, at the end of your range session. Shooting well is hard work, but enjoyable and very rewarding.

Too bad about the weather forecast. At times I look forward to inclement weather. If it's 40 degrees and rainy, I most often have the rifle range to myself. If it's really windy, it's a great opportunity to practice reading and adjusting for the wind.

Well it's 43* rain/snow mix, 12 mph wind at 7:30 am my time. "Real feel" 34*.. To get to the 25 meter line, I'm going to be laying on the mud, which, I've done before with a mat...

I'd rather it be sub freezing with rock hard ground.

I discovered that my m1907 cheapie sling that i use on one of my bolt guns is waaaay to short for my A2. I'll have to start another thread about Ron Brown sling customer service- if they are this good I'm sure someone already has. I emailed them yesterday and got a response back in minutes which is not the surprising thing. It was how eager they were to help me and get me a sling asap. Definitely the best service I've ever received in my life. I ordered a 54" black with my initials and the NM logo. By the end of business Linda told me they started already and when I get a chance, stick the check in the mail.. How do they stay in business that way? Maybe their just so nice nobody takes advantage of them? Anyway, the check is literally "in the mail" going out today.

[NinjaLoader]

Got lucky and somebody was here at my club with a key to the target closet.

No SR-3's (NRA 300 yd) but they did have SR-3 Centers. Grabbed (40) targets for $10. Same size center but less bulk. What's not to like?..

[NinjaLoader]

Notes from today's shooting session.

TARGETS ALL NRA:

100: SR-1
200: SR
300: SR-3, Centers

4/2/16
38*, 5-8 mph, 3/4 to full wind values.
wind from 45* to 135*

Military Prone
No sling
Front bag
No rear bag

All 5 Shot groups:

100 Yards (Elevation for center hold: 8/3 +5 counterclockwise)



2 1/8"
2 1/2"
2 1/8"
2 1/4"
2 1/16"
2 13/16"
2 "

200 Yards (Elevation for center hold: 8/3 +2 counterclockwise)



8 3/4"
7 7/8" (3 shots 1 15/16")
5 1/2" (4 shots 3 1/2")
6 3/8" (3 shots 3 1/4", other 2 touching)
6 1/8" (3 shots 2 3/4")
6 3/16" (3 shots 2 3/4")
4 1/4"

300 Yards (Elevation for center hold 8/3)



13 15/16" (3 shots 5 1/8")
7 1/8" (4 shot group)
8 1/16" (3 shots 3 1/8")
7 3/8" (4 shot group)
11 3/4" (3 shots 4 1/4")
11 1/2" (3 shots 1 1/2")
10 15/16" (4 shot group)
7 5/8" (4 shot group)


I could see the best ironically, once it started snowing. I figured out that all though right to left was great when I re-sighted at 28 yards...



...that at 100 and 200 it was best if I clicked right +3.

Before it became more overcast I was getting a glint of light off my front post tip that was distracting and the next time I go out, I'm going to figure out what my elevation clicks are for 6 o'clock holds. It was difficult to divide the black circles in half with my .052" front sight blade (square).



I can see from some of my groups that 3 will group nicely and then I'd have flyers. I have to keep working on my technique to become more consistent. I don't have a pre-shot routine that's consistent enough yet.

I noticed that when I inhaled, the sight would come down and when I exhaled it would come back up. So I would inhale and get a glimpse of the black circle and then as I exhaled I would watch the front sight start to make its way to cutting the circle in what I hoped was in half. I think I may do better with a 6 o'clock hold. It's way easier to see the whole circle than it is half, at least for me. I would have stayed a few more hours to work it out but I ran out of ammo.

I'm looking forward to seeing if the Ron Brown sling I have on order will help tighten the groups and provide more consistency.

I have nobody to teach me solid prone technique so I have to scour the Internet for tips. I have both feet flat to the ground on the insides and I've noticed that when I move my right elbow more toward the underside of my buffer tube that I become more stable but my front bag may run out of height I need as the 300 backstop is 1.5* uphill. I found myself slipping down, elbows working out, never consistent and as rock solid as I'd like to be. I have a bipod and a swivel assembly I can add to the handguard but I want to keep my setup as simple as I can for this project.

I'm also going to switch back to the classic a2 buttstock to see if that helps with feel and cheek weld.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome.

[T2C]

Try a little Birchwood Casey sight black on the front sight to knock down the glare. If you can't find it locally, try laying the rifle on the bench upside down with the front sight hanging off and wave a burning Styrofoam cup under the front sight to black it. Another method we used years ago was to dab a Q Tip in some wheel bearing grease and hold a flame under the grease while waving it under the sight.

It would be best to use spray on sight black. If you burn anything to blacken the sight, make sure you're upwind from the smoke.

[NinjaLoader]

Try a little Birchwood Casey sight black on the front sight to knock down the glare. If you can't find it locally, try laying the rifle on the bench upside down with the front sight hanging off and wave a burning Styrofoam cup under the front sight to black it. Another method we used years ago was to dab a Q Tip in some wheel bearing grease and hold a flame under the grease while waving it under the sight.

It would be best to use spray on sight black. If you burn anything to blacken the sight, make sure you're upwind from the smoke.

It's a brand new sight, does the birch wood casey stuff have a matte finish?

I can definitely see why a shiny new black front sight is not advantageous. Black, yes. Shiny, no.

[T2C]

Birchwood Casey sight black is matte. It is used to knock down the glare on a front sight. I made the suggestion, because your front sight appeared to be a little shiny in your picture.

[NinjaLoader]

Birchwood Casey sight black is matte. It is used to knock down the glare on a front sight. I made the suggestion, because your front sight appeared to be a little shiny in your picture.

Definitely thanks for the tip, that is going to be very helpful. There was a point today where I was getting a glint or a star reflection off the top of the sight. You know how some people purposely add it to photos so the lights look like stars, it was like that except on a miniature scale. Very distracting.

I kept having to move my sight back off the bottom to focus on the top of the blade and then bring it back to center. The vertical stringing and flyers I believe are due to having to do this and changing my cheek weld every time I did it. My damn eyeballs..